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1. • CommentAuthormarkpack
   • CommentTimeJun 18th 2009 edited

    
   There's a clip of Stroud Green towards the end of this short newsreel report from 1945: http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=13244.
2. • CommentAuthorDonnaW
   • CommentTimeJun 18th 2009

    

   That's shocking. Whereabouts is that now - I can't figure it out.

3. • CommentAuthorBeek
   • CommentTimeJun 18th 2009

    

   I met an old dear on the bus once who told me about that, there was a line of them which fell over north london, she knew every location, and I think she said it was on SGR, but I can't place the buildings, and they are very distinctive.. someone will know it...

4. • CommentAuthorwisteria53
   • CommentTimeJun 18th 2009

    

   Looking at the stills below the video on a every 1 sec interval, you can almost see the shops. I tried to interpolate the shapes of buildings in the distance to place the location but failed....

   Taff Bach (who never posts!) tells me that a V2 took off the top of our house.

5. • CommentAuthorBeek
   • CommentTimeJun 18th 2009 edited

    

   Maybe those buildings no longer exist... perhaps they had to be pulled down?

   Wasn't there a school once where Tescos now is? Or was that years before WW2? It might have been there, I'm sure the huge bomb fell near the junction with Tollington Park / SGR..

6. • CommentAuthordion
   • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009 edited

    

   http://www.movethat.co.uk/London/My/Finsbury_Park/?p=4

   regina/hanley says someone on this site

7. • CommentAuthorandy
   • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009

    
   We are Ninja
   @mark - that's a great film.
   
   It looks like the junction of Regina Road and Hanley Road to me (where the Arthur Simpson library used to be).
   
   If you pause it at 50 seconds (where they are clearing the rubble) I think the building in the background might be the roof of the Old Dairy.
   
   
8. • CommentAuthorkrappyrubsnif
   • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009 edited

    
   A V2 hit Granville Road (where the Granville Road open space is) and took out several houses. Quite a few people died. It's a pity there isn't a memorial there - it's as though it never happened.
   
   Apparently Stroud Green church just down Granville road was badly damaged and had to be demolished. Same rocket. (The church was moved into what used to be the church hall, the one there today, so the original must have been pretty huge).
   
   The newsreel could be the Tesco's one - almost everything on the Tollington Park crossroads except the Davies and Davies corner is post-war. But I agree with Andy, it does look like Hanley Road and the Old Dairy.
   
   I've got a map of bomb and V2 strikes in N4 somewhere. I'll scan it and post it. One of them took out the front windows and living room ceiling of my house and left a permanent crack in the porch.
9. • CommentAuthorAli
   • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009

    
   It the estate between Marquis and Lorne Rd a result of bomb damage ? Anyone know how old it is or its history
10. • CommentAuthorandy
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009

     
    We are Ninja
    Actually, this is pretty definitive if you compare the view from Google Street View. Look at the shape of the roof.
    
    
    
    
11. • CommentAuthorkrappyrubsnif
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009

     
    @Ali: Yes, one fell towards the Stroud Green Road end of the gardens between Lorne and Marquis, flattened the houses there and took out everything along that side of SGR as well.
    
    The map I have filed away somewhere shows the exact locations of every bomb. Almost every estate and bit of post-war development in Stroud Green today corresponds exactly with a bomb strike. It might even have the dates.
    
    Now where did I put that thing? It came from Hornsey Historical Society I think.
12. • CommentAuthorBusby
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009

     
    Our family moved into Florence Road in the summer of 1945. The estate which is now Ronaldshay was then a bombed site and served as a playground for us children although it was dangerous as most of the walls of the houses were still standing. At some time in '46 or '47 it was cleared completely but remained waste ground until about 1950. We liked to watch the walls being demolished - it was quite simple - a steel rope was put around the foot of the remains, hooked up to a tractor and the tractor simply drove off pulling the rope through the walls. The Marquis Road side's houses showed exposed rooms with furniture still in them. What I recall even today is how the site was covered in marigolds in summer, seeded by the wind from someone's once garden.
    
    A bomb fell on the corner of SGR/Tollington Park and in 1945 a water reservoir for the Civil Defence still stood there for a number of years. It was another playground of ours - on Saturday mornings we went to Saturday morning pictures down in the 'Rank' cinema at the foot of SGR and junction of Seven Sisters Road - (6d to get in and we always started off with a sing-song). On the way home we liked to climb over the wall of the resevoir and play near the remaining water.
    
    I can't remember a site in Granville Road but can remember us cubs using the church hall there in about 1947 - so I can't imagine there having been another church on the site as it seemed so old then.
    
    Nor can I recall there being a site on Hanley Road although there were bombed sites dotted all over the place, especially in Islington, sites which were often used afterwards to erect provisional pre-fabs - these pre-fabs were simple houses made of asbestos if I remember rightly and served until well into the 60s in some cases.
    
    My uncle lived in Woodstock Road but was in the army - he was billeted at home because he was one of those who manned the AA Guns in Finsbury Park just by that footbridge over the railway lines.
13. • CommentAuthorandy
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009 edited

     
    We are Ninja
    I pick a blurred roof shape from a single background frame of smoking pathe footage, match it to an image taken sixty five years later and get nothing.
    
    This shit is Blade Runner, people.
    
    What does it take to impress you?
14. • CommentAuthorpoxy
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009 edited

     
    Can you draw a picture of the London skyline? From memory?
15. • CommentAuthorGlyn
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009

     
    Thanks Andy.
    
    Thandy.
16. • CommentAuthorIan
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009

     
    @Andy - we were very impressed.
    
    Although the word "geek" was also used.
17. • CommentAuthorLucy
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009

     

    @Ian - he's used to "geek".

18. • CommentAuthorandy
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009

     
    We are Ninja
    @poxy - I can take it, but you daren't say a word against Stephen Wiltshire.
19. • CommentAuthormarkpack
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009

     
    Wow, what an impressive amount of information my posting has spawned. Thank you one and all.
20. • CommentAuthorpoxy
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009

     
    Andy - I have the utmost respect for the skills of Mr Wiltshire.
21. • CommentAuthorphantom_user
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2009

     

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/yersinia/3061495862/sizes/o/

    

22. • CommentAuthorunaesthetic
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2009

     
    bless you, andy
    
    blandy
23. • CommentAuthordion
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2009 edited

     

    If one of those bombs hadn't fallen on Wray Crescent, then there would be no open space for the Wray Crescent Open Space Festival this afternoon.

24. • CommentAuthorDonnaW
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2009 edited

     

    Andy... I'm so impressed. This thread has really opened my eyes and made me look differently at a very familiar sight! It's crazy, all this history lurking beneath the surface... and you'd never know really what happened. Were many people hurt/killed? What happened to them once they'd lost their homes? it's really interesting.

    Thanks very much Busby as well, I found your account fascinating - I walk past Ronaldshay every day and I'll try to picture what you've written the next time!

25. • CommentAuthorphantom_user
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2009

     

    http://londonist.com/2009/01/london_v2_rocket_sitesmapped.php

    According to this map the V2 fell on Regina Road on 31 December 1944, killing 13 people. The newsreel footage is likely to be New Year's Day 1945.

26. • CommentAuthormagicP
    • CommentTimeJun 21st 2009

     
    Fascinating stuff, thanks for the links and to Busby for the information about the area.
27. • CommentAuthortosscat
    • CommentTimeJun 21st 2009

     

    cool andy

    candy

28. • CommentAuthorDavid
    • CommentTimeJun 21st 2009

     
    We are Ninja

    This shit is Blade Runner, people.

    God damn moonbeams off the shoulders of Orion, ya'll.

29. • CommentAuthorkrappyrubsnif
    • CommentTimeJun 21st 2009

     
    @phantom_user: what is the first (flickr) map you uploaded? Islington ward, mapped circa 1939 or before - but what do the various colours represent? Bomb damage?
30. • CommentAuthorBusby
    • CommentTimeJun 22nd 2009

     
    I'd like to post more details about 1945 and onwards, but this 'blade runner' thing and shoulders of orion get in my way. What the hell are we/they/you talking about?
31. • CommentAuthorpoxy
    • CommentTimeJun 22nd 2009

     
    Busby: Andy & David are being Sci-fi geeks. Ignore them, all these things will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
    
    Please post more details of c. 1945.
32. • CommentAuthormagicP
    • CommentTimeJun 22nd 2009

     
    Yes, I agree.
    
    Busby: please post more c1945 details.
33. • CommentAuthorAli
    • CommentTimeJun 22nd 2009

     
    It seems like It the estate between Marquis and Lorne Rd didn’t cop it form a V2.
    I wonder if there a LCC map for the Haringey side of SGR as it might have the answers to what got bombed !
34. • CommentAuthorAli
    • CommentTimeJun 22nd 2009

     
    colurs mean
    
    Key
    Black - Total destruction
    Purple - Damage beyond repair
    Dark Red - Seriously damaged, doubtful if repairable
    Light Red - Seriously damaged, repairable at cost
    Orange - General blast damage, minor in nature
    Yellow - Blast damage, minor in nature
    Green - Clearance areas
    Small circle - V2 Bomb
    Large circle - V1 bomb
    
    If you click back to Flicker you wikll find some other info as well
35. • CommentAuthorandy
    • CommentTimeJun 22nd 2009 edited

     
    We are Ninja

    @phantom_user: awesome CSI skills.

    @Busby. Sorry for interrupting. Do you like our Owl?

36. • CommentAuthorphantom_user
    • CommentTimeJun 22nd 2009

     

    More info on those maps here

    http://project-habbakuk.blogspot.com/2009/05/introduction-to-lcc-bomb-damage-maps.html

37. • CommentAuthorphantom_user
    • CommentTimeJun 22nd 2009

     

    Some of the East End maps from that set are pretty harrowing.

38. • CommentAuthorphantom_user
    • CommentTimeJun 22nd 2009

     

    Not to go off on too much of a tangent, but I never realised how amazing the pre-war Highbury & Islington station was:

    

39. • CommentAuthorIan
    • CommentTimeJun 22nd 2009

     
    @phantom_user. Wow.
    
    best thread ever...
40. • CommentAuthorpoxy
    • CommentTimeJun 22nd 2009

     
    Indeed. It's a baby St. Pancras.
41. • CommentAuthorAli
    • CommentTimeJun 22nd 2009

     
    seems like the Haringey side of SGR hasn't got a bomb map as it was outside the LCC area. The map boundary between Islington and Hornsey is SGR as today.
42. • CommentAuthormatt
    • CommentTimeJun 22nd 2009

     

    this thread is brilliant. both for the history and the movie quotes.

    please carry on

43. • CommentAuthorDavid
    • CommentTimeJun 22nd 2009

     
    We are Ninja

    It's lacking some chat about cake or bread, to be honest.

44. • CommentAuthorAli
    • CommentTimeJun 22nd 2009

     
    Maybe Busby could explain how his Mum would have baked a cake while on rations
45. • CommentAuthortosscat
    • CommentTimeJun 22nd 2009

     

    the vaguery a elsewhere baby David

46. • CommentAuthorBusby
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2009

     
    It's not so easy to explain how mum baked cakes when everything was rationed - firstly because I was only seven years old so didn't take great interest in such things and secondly because i don't think she did.
    Everything was scarce, sometimes there was plenty of something and a week later nothing more of the same was to be had. The amount issued in return for coupons was thus dependent upon the availability of whatever.
    Of course there was a great deal of swapping between neighbours, if you didn't like butter you took it anyway and then a neighbour would swap it with you for rice etc. I imagine that any cakes my mum may have made were simple sponge or some other sort of dry stuff. There was certainly no Black Forest Gateau or similar. There was very little chocolate, no bananas, pineapples or other tropical fruit.
    There was one sensible thing, and for that I'm still thankfull today. All schoolchildren had a 1/3 of a pint of milk each morning - right up until about 1950/51 - this was obligatory.
    I went to Stroud Green School and started in the infants (ground floor) went on to the juniors (middle floor) and then to the seniors (top floor), the Headmaster was a Mr. Stephenson - we called him 'inky' because at that time 'Stephens inks' (for fountain and other pens )was sold. At school we had PE every day, every Wednesday afternoon was a sports afternoon (we went by bus (233) to a field at the foot of Ally-Pally), we went swimming once a week(walked to Hornsey Road baths and back, no heated pool - no showers) and played cricket in summer and football in winter - whatever the weather.
    
    But we didn't learn much, most of the men teachers were still in the services or were dead, so we mainly had housewives who were stand-ins and gave general lessons such as music, geography and arithmatic. We spent years just doing £sd and never even touched the decimal system. We were in two streams; A and B. But I cannot recall one boy or girl who could not read and write when we left school. There were no fatties - except one boy whose father had a fish and chip shop on Stroud Green Road.
    
    Rationing went on until about 1950 when a few exceptions remained.
    
    Just before Christmas 1945 I caught scarlet fever, at that time there were no anti-biotics (TB was rife), so I was delivered wrapped in a blanket by ambulance to the Cottage Hospital in Colney Hatch lane where I stayed for 6 long weeks. It was embarrassing actually because the whole house had to be fumigated because of me and all of my personal possesions were burned. I remember my devastation at hearing how my beloved book 'Pinochio' had been taken away!
    
    Next time - if you are interested, I'll tell you how Florence Road was converted from Gas to Electricity.
47. • CommentAuthorhellojo
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2009

     
    I'm definitely interested!
    
    My mother, although quite young at the time, very clearly remembers the end of chocolate rationing and the large bag of Smarties that followed. Then will spend ages telling you that the different colors were different flavours then, and what they were...
48. • CommentAuthorstaplejack
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2009

     
    Absolutely fascinating, Busby, thanks for posting.
49. • CommentAuthorMarquis
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2009

     
    Another Busby fan here. Living opposite Ronaldshay I've got a completely different view now.
50. • CommentAuthorphantom_user
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2009

     

    Wonderful stuff, thank you Busby.

51. • CommentAuthormagicP
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2009

     
    Lovely, thank you Busby.
    
    My father is 71 this year and spent the war over in Twickenham with his brothers and has plenty of stories similar to yours. I am going to show him the Pathe footage next time he visits.
52. • CommentAuthorBusby
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2009

     
    Well, I've just spent one hour adding my next comment - then came a notice saying my contribution was too long - so I pressed the return button to go back and shorten it and the whole thing vanished...
    
    Tommorow then!
53. • CommentAuthorDavid
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2009

     
    We are Ninja

    Wow. You've exhausted the text field limit of MySQL - THIS SHIT IS BLADERUNNER, PEOPLE.

    I suggest if you've done more than 5 paragraphs Busby, post and then continue with a new post...

54. • CommentAuthortosscat
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2009

     

    Do it in word, gmail or something first then copy and paste.

55. • CommentAuthorBusby
    • CommentTimeJun 27th 2009

     
    Having been brought up on the Dandy and Beano trip as a lad in Newcastle my reading efforts developed along normal lines so when we moved to London in the summer of '45 and I discovered a library on the corner of Mountview Road and Quermore Road there was no stopping me.
    
    But reading at home was a problem - we only had gas lighting. I don't know how many houses had already been converted to electricity but the street lighting was also still gas and the lamps needed a gas- lighterman who came along on his bike every evening with a long pole, opened a window on the lamp and lit the lamp.
    At home we had gaslighting in every room and each light had a 'mantle' these were sort of mushroom shaped hats which spread the light of the gas flame out. The best place to read was directly under a light although the hissing could be somewhat distracting. I had quickly 'bagged' my place which was in the corner next to the kitchen window and I could settle down for hours with a book.
    
    I remember how exciting it was in November walking to the library after school with just the lights of the gas lamps faintly visible through the famous London fogs. Stapleton Hall Road was like a fairy tale, those houses were well lit up and out in the cold, in the fog and in the silence (in the real London fogs of the 1950s there was utter stillness) the lights of the front rooms were like beacons in the ocean.
    My father was a qualified electrical engineer and had been sent to Newcastle when the war broke out instead of going into the services. Newcastle built warships and he was part of the crew installing the electrical circuits.
    So, after moving to London the failing electric installations in the house became a challenge. Not only that but his hobby was making radios and later (I'll get back to this) televisions. Presumably, I can't remember, the council had already laid the electric mains in the road at some time because the road was pretty quickly fitted with electric lights and Dad's application (as a qualified eletrician) to connect the house to the mains was approved.
    
    I had a crystal radio which I listened to in bed and there was a radio in the kitchen which was powered by an accumalator. This accu was about half the size of a car battery and just as heavy. One paid a deposit in a shop in SGR took the accu home and simply exchanged it regurlarly for a fully charged one for a few pence.
    
    To be continued...
56. • CommentAuthorkrappyrubsnif
    • CommentTimeJun 27th 2009

     
    Love it, Busby, thanks. I was a child of the 50s and I struggle to appreciate that this was only just a very few years before. So much has happened since.
57. • CommentAuthorBusby
    • CommentTimeJun 28th 2009

     
    Continued from yesterday...
    
    After the war finding a job wasn't very difficult for some people. There had been a lot of damage done, nothing had been maintained and people were keen to get back to a semblance of comfort.
    Dad got a job with London Transport on the Undergound system. He worked shifts, didn't earn much but it was a start.
    The open market was flooded with surplus war equipment and the people who dealt in this market were generally known as 'spivs'. If you had a little bit of money and knew where to go you could get anything. At home we had compasses, mercury switches, spectacles, ball-bearings of all sizes, altitude meters and a host of other pointless things which had more or less been thrust into dad's hands.
    His need however was for electric cable suitable for carrying the load to the house. I don't know where he got it but one day it was there. There was an electrical shop in SGR down towards FP station and one in Blackstock Road, here he bought those pieces of equipment that he needed - mainly war surplus and cheap.
    We're probably into 1946 now and he seconded me, a hardly eight- year-old boy to help him. The details have gone now, but I remember scratting around in the coal cellar pulling cables through walls by the light of a candle. In short he wired up the whole house so that the people below us and in the rooms above had electricity too. I'm pretty sure that this was all on the meter so shillings had to be fed into the slot to keep the lights burning. The cupboard under the stairs at the bottom was suddenly full of meters. I think the meters had been fitted by the Electricity Board which had its HQ in front of the town hall. This 'discovery' of his, that there were houses without electricity then became a second job for him and he earned himself a few bob by this means. He needed money badly because his second hobby appeared to be smoking - he was a chain smoker and smoked Senior Service, not a cheap brand such as Woodbines or CravenA.
    My mother also found a job in the CravenA cigarette factory in Camden Town. This factory was/is a massive white building still in use today for something, on the left as you have passed Euston Station on the way by road to Holloway.
    
    We children virtually ran wild. We went everywhere and in summer and especially the summer holidays there was no stopping us. Finsbury Park, the boating lake, the American gardens, the River Lea, Hampstead Heath, Spaniards Inn, Ally Pally - all our playgrounds, all reached on foot and returned from with burning hunger, tired but happy. Hobbies we had too. But they had to be free of charge - so there was stamp-collecting, football cards, model eoroplanes (made of cheap pieces of balsa wood) and the greatest of all - trainspotting.
    I'll tell you more about this and the London Trams and 1947 next time.
    
    Busby.
58. • CommentAuthorphantom_user
    • CommentTimeJun 28th 2009

     

    Amazing, thank you Busby

59. • CommentAuthormarkpack
    • CommentTimeJun 28th 2009

     
    Thanks Busby; another fascinating read.
60. • CommentAuthorkrappyrubsnif
    • CommentTimeJun 28th 2009

     
    Someone once told me that Sandilands put in most of the electrical wiring in Stroud Green in the early years of the last century. Firm is still going strong.
61. • CommentAuthorstaplejack
    • CommentTimeJun 29th 2009

     
    Busby: a question for you? I live opposite the library on the corner of Quernmore and have been told that my building used to be a Nat West bank before being converted to flats in 1969. Any confirmation on this you could shed?
    
    Thanks!
62. • CommentAuthorAli
    • CommentTimeJun 29th 2009

     
    There used to be quite a few banks.
    Barclays used to be at in the Dr’s surgery on the corner of SGR and Hanley while the Midland used to be in the building where the Chinese clothes and massage place opposite the end of Lorne Rad.
63. • CommentAuthorBusby
    • CommentTimeJun 29th 2009

     
    Staplejack; I went into google street to have a look how it is today. Well, I used the library between 1945 and 1953 and I'm pretty sure there was no bank there on the corner. So if there had been one at all it would have been after 1953. This is apart from the fact that in the fourties no-one had any money!
    
    But here's a little tid-bit for you.
    
    My way to the library from Florence Road once I had became a steam train enthusiast was via a path that ran from Dagmar Road to Quernmore Road parallel to the main line railway. (i'll tell more about this later) - but I remember distinctly coming out of the pathway in I suppose (without going into research) February 1951 and seeing a news placard outside the newsagent's shop near the library with the words written very big 'The King is Dead'.
64. • CommentAuthorBusby
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2009

     
    The name Sandilands does ring a bell, but I don't think dad got his stuff there.
    
    Before I go further I'd like to tell you a few general things.
    
    Most people had only the clothes they had on their backs. Us schoolchildren were supposed to have a uniform, if I recall correctly the colours were red and green stripes. Shirts had to last a week, there were even those who had their mothers turn the shirts inside -out for a further week. Underclothes were changed on Sundays - that is Saturday night was bath night. The tin bath would come out, the kettle and all available pans would go on the stove and everyone would have a bath. I had to go into the front room while my parents bathed (one after another of course - the bath was only small). Then it was my turn and afterwards clean pyjamas were issued. This state of affairs went on quite a long time as money was scarce in most families.
    There was one really hilarious incident. Rowing boats were cheap on the lake in Finsbury Park simply because the cost coud be shared between for. And there was an island in the middle of the lake (I assume there still is), well this was like Treasure Island for us, if we rowed round the back we couldn't be seen from the boathouse and we kept our eyes open for park attendants. We liked to chase the ducks on the island and get them flying madly away. On the shore there was a large over-the-water-hanging willow tree. One day, as we were passing underneath this tree one of the lads (C) stood up and grabbed an overhanging branch, this was the signal for the two rowers to accelerate and C was left dangling in the air above the water. To keep it short - he fell in and went to wait in the island until we turned around and picked him up. Of course he went home wet. Well, he always wore a grey coat and grey trousers. But for two or more days he didn't come to school. When he did he was wearing what appeared to be new clothes, when remarked upon he admitted that the clothes weren't new - they had been dry-cleaned and so showed their original colour. !!! That's how things were.
    
    On a Sunday most children went to Sunday School, I went to the baptist Church in Stapleton Hall Road - what I do remember is the harvest service and the masses of fruit, corn and vegetables piled up to show the 'goodness of the lord'!.
    
    I only had one pair of shoes. Unfortunately the school expected us to play football on some Wednesday sport afternoons and dad would go mad when he saw the state my shoes were in. But he repaired all the family shoes himself. He had a shoe jack, you don't see them now I suppose - it was an L-shaped iron foot which he put on the chair between his legs and set to work. He simply bought squares of rubber (for this purpose) or leather - depending. Then he'd remove the worn-out soles and heels, on the stove he had a pot of glue bubbling away for this purpose too. He'd then cut the rubber for the soles and heels roughly into shape, glue and nail them to the shoes, wait until the glue was dry and then simply trim the edges around the shoe until the job was finished. If he used leather he had a special shoe dye to soak into the leather until everything was black again. easy isn't it!
65. • CommentAuthorMills
    • CommentTimeJul 6th 2009

     
    Thanks for all the info, busby, it's really interesting. As a long term resident, can you keep going until present day please?! I'll keep reading as long as you keep typing.
    
    I live at that end of Regina and recognised the roof of the now Dairy but am so late to the thread that I didn't get in in time to say so and wouldn't have wanted to steal anyone's thunder...
66. • CommentAuthorunderscore_cue
    • CommentTimeJul 6th 2009

     
    Where you hire out the rowing boats, there is still a sign saying 'abolutely no mooring on the island' - so I suppose you would still have to sneak round the back and keep your eyes open for attendants to get to 'treasure island' - plus ça change.
    
    Incidentally the cost nowadays is £5, or £1.25 each if you're in a four.
67. • CommentAuthorkrappyrubsnif
    • CommentTimeJul 6th 2009

     
    I cycle past your old house every morning, Busby. Do you want a photo? A bit of souvenir electrical wiring, perhaps?
68. • CommentAuthormagicP
    • CommentTimeJul 6th 2009

     
    This is all fascinating, thank you Busby. As a FloRo resident, I would love to see your old house.
69. • CommentAuthorbennyfromtheblok
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2009

     
    Wow! Busby, the audience is captivated by your stories. Please keep them coming.
    My girlfriends granddad was a POW in in Japan during WW2 and he has all his diaries still in tact along with almost everything of any significance in his life documented such as his first car receipt, old driving licenses and even a letter to his wife from the King saying he was dead! Imagine the shock/joy when he turned up 3 years later.
    It's amazing for us to be able to understand what life was like and to appreciate the sacrifices made at the time. As a child of '77 modern society is all I've known. I'm humbled by some of the stories I've heard and welcome anyone with similar memories to share them with us all.
70. • CommentAuthorBusby
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2009

     
    Bear with me - I've just moved and the telephone company needed a week to get the connection going - I'll be along shortly.
71. • CommentAuthorBusby
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2009

     
    I've debated with myself a couple of times as to whether I should tell the number of the house in Florence Road - but - as I don't yet know what I'm going to recall I'll not yet (if at all) give it.
    
    1947 was a year that entered the annals of the meteorologists because we had a very hot summer and a very cold winter with masses of snow. Quite honestly I can't remember the snow but the summer was a sizzler. In fact it was a year that became famous for its wines as the heat was all over Europe.
    
    No-one could sleep, you could toss and turn all night without pyjamas and just with a thin sheet but it was to no avail. Everybody had all windows and doors open, in the evening everybody was outside sitting on the garden walls. The ladies often just in bras and shorts/knickers/slips - and the men strpped to the waist; there was no money for bathing costumes (and for what)! But there was a good neighbourly atmosphere and we all had the feeling that things would only be getting better.
    
    Water was a problem. As it didn't rain and as there were no real reserves the taps were dry. The council had no other choice than to send tankers filled with water around the streets and all families would come out with vessels of all kinds including the Saturday-night tin-baths. The amount of water you could have was free but was rather restricted to the amount you could actually have standing around at home on the floor in vases, jugs, pails and so on. This water also had to be used to rinse the toilets so going down to the street with a couple of bottles didn't really sort any problems!
    
    We children were as brown as berries, in fact part of the problem about sleeping was the fact that we played outside until late in the evening and then overheated and still excited were supposed to drop into bed and sleep.
    
    We are talking about the time of the Ally-Pally Push and Pull.
    The steam locomotives were a source of great pleasure (for us children) simply because the glowing ashes and coals they spewed out of the funnels set the embankement on fire, the grass being so dry. At times it was so bad the fire brigade were called out - the problem of course was water. If those of you who live on the ex-railway side of Florence Road go to the end of the back garden and look over the garden wall you may well see a ditch. In the 40s and 50s this was filled with water, the run-off from the embankement. This rest water was quickly used up by the fire brigade so basically they were left with no other choice than to try to beat out the fire by hand using any available instrument.
    In about early September the heat came to an end with a massive thunderstorm. The whole of Florence Road was flooded, deepest on the Lorne/Marquis Road side, we went wading in bare feet thankful to at last have cold weather.
    
    We were often in Finsbury Park and because of the heat mainly down by the New River, it was fairly shallow and because of the water shortage very slow-moving, so we'd climb over the fence and dip ourselves in it with one eye open for the Park wardens, who, dressed in brown suits were immediately distuingishable from all others.
    
    You will all know that Alexandra Palace was, at that time, already sending out TV programmes - next time I'll tell you how our family became the first to have a TV in the home.
72. • CommentAuthormapsa
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2009

     
    "The ladies often just in bras and shorts/knickers/slips - and the men stripped to the waist"
    
    How little has changed - sounds like the seating area outside the White Lion of Mortimer on a sunny day
73. • CommentAuthormagicP
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2009

     
    Thanks for the new info Busby!
74. • CommentAuthorBusby
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2009

     
    Dad, as I have already said, was an electrician - in fact he was almost fanatical and it was the only thing he lived for it seems when looking back.
    
    I know it's difficult to imagine today but Florence Road was virtually and empty road, even in about 1948 there was only one car parked and one motorbike with sidecar. Some deliveries were made by horse and cart and a vehicle was so seldom that we could play football in the road without having to stop or move out of the way.
    I'm telling you this because even then, when the whole area was car- free Alexandra Palace was sending out a TV programme.
    
    I doubt that we knew this, no-one had a set and no-one ever mentioned anything about it.
    
    Until Dad said he was going to build a set himself.
    
    Drawings appeared, blueprints as they were then called, and Dad sat down to list what he needed. In those days radios and Tvs consisted of valves, tuners, transformers, resistances, cathode ray tubes and a host of other things which you don't hear of today.
    
    The first thing he came home with was a large sheet of aluminium about 3mm thick. He then scored it on one side at all edges then cut the corners and bent the al. so that the result looked like the lid of a box. This was the chassis. He then, according to the plan, bored all the holes and inlets needed. Don't forget there were no home electric drills, so he had two hand drills, one for small holes and one for larger. Both drills had a 'chest rest' so that you could put pressure on the drill by pressing onto it. But the large holes he needed were larger than the bits so he filed these holes out...
    
    Once the chassis was ready he started to shop for all the pieces he needed, the purchase of these was restricted to what he could afford at any given time but it slowly went ahead. In the evenings he'd clear the kitchen table and start soldering all the wires onto all the parts. I can remember the day he came home with the cathode tube. It was a 9" screen and had a length of about 18 inches. Once he had soldered everything together he proudly stood up (it was evening) and said 'finished' . He plugged it in to the mains and in short after juggling about with the ariel we found ourselves amazingly watching tv from Ally Pally. I think there was about two hours of TV per evening. As far as I can remember it was mainly news and music hall and each evening started of with a picture of Ally Pally radiating waves from the large antenna on the roof.
    
    Afterwards he went down to the shops and came home with a large piece of thick plywood, this was for the cabinet and he made this too all by hand. The joins were dovetailed, each cut perfectly, the cabinet when finished was then stained and then french polished. The chassis was fitted into the cabinet, bakelite knobs were added a piece of silk cloth glued over the loudspeaker hole and our TV was finished!
    
    As you can imagine it was quite a sensation and there was a stream of neighbours all wanting a view and in the end all wanting him to build one for them too. For a while he did this but then slowly Tvs came onto the market, the main make was 'Pye' - they were somewhere (Ilford?) along the Southend Arterial Road (as it was then called) and he was often called upon to repair these sets which got on our nerves at home because the kitchen table was permanently occupied in the evenings and at weekends.
75. • CommentAuthorDonal
    • CommentTimeJul 28th 2009 edited

     
    Yet more fascinating stuff, Busby - thank you!
    
    I live at 80-something Florence Road, backing onto the Parkland Walk. I've often wondered if any photos exist of the train taken from one of the back gardens. I've not found any to date.
    
    I should add that when having a new lawn laid a year or so ago, we came across a large immovable metal object in the ground - given the history of the area, we decided to leave well enough alone...
76. • CommentAuthorBusby
    • CommentTimeJul 28th 2009

     
    Just a short reply Donal.
    
    There were two trains running to Finsbury Park, just backwards and forwards with the engines always at the same end (hence Push and Pull). They had only two carriages and the engines were N2 class. At that time anyone who had a camera had a Kodak Box camera. The problem was the cost of film and the cost of processing the photo's.
    
    If you go into the website of the Hornsey Historical Society you'll maybe find out more.
    
    The large immovable object you left alone in your garden was probably an old Anderson shelter. We had one in 'our' back garden. They were dug into the ground and roofed over as a place to go when the sirens went, ours stayed in place at least until 1952/3 when we moved.
77. • CommentAuthorDonal
    • CommentTimeAug 5th 2009

     
    Many thanks for the extra info, Busby. An Anderson shelter would make sense.
78. • CommentAuthorBusby
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2009

     
    Things in general:
    
    The real economic upsurge in the UK took place in the 50s. The post -war 40s were, I suppose, rather boring. There was a lot of poor people, a lot of men who were war-injured; - legs, arms , eyes lost. Of course you don't see them today because they are all dead. But it was normal then and as children we didn't think much about it.
    
    In Finsbury Park, by the lake, there was (maybe there still is) a cafeteria. This cafeteria sold Wall's Ice Cream in big chunks between two wafers. It also sold Tizer (the appetiser!), a fizzy drink with a special taste. We took real pleasure in dropping great clods of ice cream into a glass of Tizer, waiting until the ice cream had melted a little then gobbling it out with a spoon!
    
    In about 1946/7, all schoolchildren in London were told to bring a small bowl to school. A ship had docked in the Port of London filled with a cargo of cocoa and the government had decided to buy the cargo and let it be distributed to all the schools in London. We all went home one day with about five tablespoons of cocoa in our bowls. The advice given was to mix it with the same amount of sugar and eat it just like that, which we did. It was absolutely delicious!!! We still didn't know how bananas, pineapples and other tropical fruit tasted. In about 1948 we had a chicken for Christmas dinner. Unbelievable!
    
    I'd just like to say that during the late 80s my wife and I had chicken in a small restaurant in Greece. After the first bite or two I had to put my knife and fork down because I could again taste the chicken of 1947. The stuff called chicken that we have today is a tasteless, factory mush.
    
    I was fortunate in that I had a lot of friends who were interested in a lot of things. We evolved together with stamp collecting, chess, model making, cubs and boy scouts, playing football, cricket and hockey in the road, collecting train numbers, occasionally going to the Arsenal stadium on Saturdays - 9d to get in and sit virtually on the touchline! Until the moment came when, one after another, we started to get bikes.
    
    Most bikes were made from frames collected from a junk heap, bombed-sites or back gardens, wheels swapped or begged for, any sort of saddle available, and most of the bikes at the beginning were fixed-wheel, that is no gears but just a direct drive. This fixed wheel drive was also the brake(s), so when you put pressure on to stop pedalling the bike stopped too - in relation to your speed and the strength of one's legs!
    
    We had a new freedom and a chance to go on discovery trips - places we'd never been to before; Hackney marshes, Epping Forest, Broxbourne, Geoff's Oak, Cuffley, are some of the places that come to mind. And we discovered something else; there was a pet shop in Camden Town who's owner had a good market for grass snakes. So, at the end of June we'd ride out to Cockfosters (the bikes by the way were slowly getting better) each with a couple of dried-milk tins with holes punched in the lids - mothers of babies could get dried milk on the National Health - go to a small brook we had discovered to be full of snakes in late June/early July, catch one or two then ride back to Camden Town and sell them for 5 shillings in this shop.
    
    Life was slowly turning into a real adventure and the introduction of pocket money created opportunities almost unheard of.
79. • CommentAuthorpoxy
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2009

     
    Busby: Are you my dear (deceased) grandpa? He used to tell me similar stories as I sat on his lap as a nipper.
    
    How many many legs do you have? My grandpa had only one. He lost the other in the war. A tank fell off the Vickers production line in Leeds where he worked. As a kid I used to greet him by giving him a quick kick on the shins to see if his leg had grown back. I invariably kicked him on the wrong (real) leg.
80. • CommentAuthorDavid
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2009

     
    We are Ninja

    I'm convinced this is spam.

81. • CommentAuthorbennyfromtheblok
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2009

     
    Naa, check his old posts..it's very consistent.
    
    Plus, it is very interesting.
82. • CommentAuthorIan
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2009

     
    @David - Perhaps its an elaborate joke to show how community groups will swallow all sorts and we will end up on TV documentary. Or it's a wanabee writer and all will be threaded together in a novel. But given it keeps us happy reading it why not? It's like Santa Claus for kids, let's not ruin the magic yet ...
83. • CommentAuthorShaunG
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2009

     

    Surely David was joking...

84. • CommentAuthorDavid
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2009

     
    We are Ninja

    As much as I'd love OAP Spam to exist, I was indeed joking.

85. • CommentAuthorIan
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2009

     
    @shaunG @David. Er, surely so was I ...
86. • CommentAuthorDavid
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2009

     
    We are Ninja

    The clarification was for benny's benefit....

87. • CommentAuthorBusby
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2009

     
    I don't know what 'spam' is - except of course for the tinned meat we had after the war. However, as requested I have continued the thread and have related the world as it was then for us youngsters in the 40s.
    
    Maybe in these days of electronic entertainment when no-one really bothers about the world outside it is difficult to imagine or concieve of a world where things only got done by making an effort. But that's what we did and it has remained with me for all these years as something very valuable.
    
    Enough said. Busby.
88. • CommentAuthorDavid
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2009

     
    We are Ninja

    I do hope your memoirs of the 40's have been more accurate than your perception of the present, Busby.

89. • CommentAuthorBusby
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2009

     
    I assume then, David, that you are at an age to compare...
90. • CommentAuthorbusman
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2009

     
    Hi Busby,
    I think I speak for most people on here in saying that your posts are some of the most readable and informative threads on the board. The nature of this type of board is that anyone can make a comment whether it is relevant or not and sometimes this can divert from the thread. Please dont take any notice of such diversions and keep coming out with your memories.
    Keep up the good work.
91. • CommentAuthorDavid
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2009

     
    We are Ninja

    Not at all Busby, I do know life still involves effort and going outside into the world in the present though. And don't get me wrong, you're posts are welcome. I think I speak on behalf of the other people on this site when I say a little humour around such posts is welcome too.

92. • CommentAuthorkrappyrubsnif
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2009

     
    Busby, don't be put off by smart-arse comments. We love this thread. Keep it coming.
    
    Here's a question - do you have any recollections of Stroud Green pubs in the post war years? Or were you too young to go in them when you lived here? Did your dad use them? Did women go into pubs then?
    
    There are a few on this board who should relate to that.
93. • CommentAuthortosscat
    • CommentTimeAug 16th 2009

     

    I'm with David, it's all about balance...

94. • CommentAuthortosscat
    • CommentTimeAug 16th 2009 edited

     

    Yawn

95. • CommentAuthorDavid
    • CommentTimeAug 16th 2009

     
    We are Ninja

    There was nothing smart-arse about disagreeing with Busby's vision of the present. It's simply wrong.

96. • CommentAuthorDonnaW
    • CommentTimeAug 16th 2009 edited

     

    I think David and Busby are both making valid points.

    And I think everyone is really keen to read more of your contributions Busby. I know I am.

    In particular, I was wondering if you'd ever heard of a shop called The Old Tuck Shop. I think it was on Florence Road?

97. • CommentAuthorBusby
    • CommentTimeAug 16th 2009

     
    All I'm doing is telling you all how it was in the 40s, if you want to argue then argue amongst yourselves.
    
    Well, DonnaW, the Tuck Shop was a favourite place for us schoolchildren. I've just looked into google street view and it is still recognisable.
    
    It's not in Florence Road but lies at the beginning of Woodstock Road.
    If you walk along Florence Road and cross Tollington Park towards Stroud Green School you'll see on the right (in google painted brown) a sort of shop. This was the Tuck Shop.
    
    A lot of the stuff; sweets, lollies, ice-lollies, sherbert, broken biscuits, etc., were available in quantities equal to one penny. (Id). If I rememebr rightly other things were priced at 3d and above. We weren't allowed to take anything into school - most of us had school dinners anyway. And, just to say, we all had a cumpulsory 1/3 of a pint of milk every schoolday morning. It was quite busy at 'rush hours' and was owned by Mr ...., (name known) who lived in Florence Road just opposite to me, and he also had a building and contracting business. Mr .... was the father of a good friend of mine, and, as he was someone who got on with things he had more money than all the other neighbours.
    
    His downfall was the attractive woman who served in the tuck shop in his employment.... and thereby hangs a tale.
    
    Unfortunately the school way along Florence Road wasn't always pleasant for me because I've always been afraid of dogs and the family on the corner of Tollington Park (Upper? I'm not sure now) had a large and rather viscious dog which they allowed to roam freely. If I was fortunate enough to see the dog before I approached the crossing i'd simply walk down to Victoria Road to avoid any stress.
98. • CommentAuthorwideboy
    • CommentTimeNov 26th 2009

     
    I posted this on another forum, but I'm sure it will be of interest here too:
    
    Some fascinating 1940's aerial photography is available on www.getmapping.com , taken from RAF and Luftwaffe stock between 1939-1950.
    
    Type in N4 3JH as a postcode, and then switch to the "1940's hires" tab at the top of the map view area. You can see the area prior to heavy wartime bombing. That area was subsequently rebuilt to become Andover and Six Acres estates.
99. • CommentAuthorkrappyrubsnif
    • CommentTimeJan 2nd 2010

     
    Busby, you haven't posted for a while.
    
    Do you have an answer to my question about recollections of Stroud Green pubs in the post war years - or were you too young to go in them? What about your family and neighbours - did they use them?
    
    Do you remember them from the outside or what they were called in thgose days?
100. • CommentAuthorBusby
     • CommentTimeJan 3rd 2010

      
     Sorry, I missed your original question krappyrubsnif.
     
     We lived in Florence Road from 1945 -52/3. My dad was a teetotaller because he'd seen the state his father and therefore the whole family was in because of drink.So it's clear we had nothing to do with pubs.
     
     But don't forget a couple of things: Pubs weren't the same sort of social centres they tend to be today - that is most of those who drank did so at the expense of their families as there was hardly any money around anyway. Children weren't allowed into pubs, so it was common to see them sitting outside on the pavement or playing games. Naturally there were those 'better' pubs, but at that time there was nothing like that in SG. I think the most famous pubs around were the 'Spaniard's Inn' and 'Jack Straw's Castle' both up at Hampstead.
     Nor, as far as I can remember were there many pubs to be seen in SG. There was the one on the corner of SGRoad and Tollington Park (name forgotten), and the 'Silver Bullet' down beyond FP station. I think there was also one at the junction of SGRoad, Hanley Road and Stapleton Hall Road.
     
     In fact I think it's fair to say that pubs were looked upon as dens of iniquity and stank of beer. Most pubs (as I later got to know) sold a cheap beer which was the collected rests of spillages and probably not finished glasses. This was quite common I know, because for a while I worked a couple of turns in pubs as an 18year-old to get a bit of money.
     
     Compared to today beer bottles were never to be seen smashed on the pavements - all bottles had a deposit, even for soft drinks, and any left lying around were quickly taken back to a source by us children.
     
     Clearly, as a child I didn't interest myself in pubs, but know, from recent experience how pubs today have dropped in standards if I think back to the 60s when I started to go into them myself. In October I 'dropped' into a pub in Finchley, it was a still warm october day and I was looking forward to a thirst-quencher. . . but I quickly left - all the swearing was unbelievable.
     
     I cannot remember if any of our neighbours used them. but I don't think so simply because there really was no money around and the neighbours, still in the grip of the war years had to scrape every penny together to live. In general, as I remember, everybody around were 'decent' caring people who were forced to start again after the war ended. I'm pretty sure that all of us children had happy lives, my time at SGSchool was never darkened by anything, I don't know if many can say that today.