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1. • CommentAuthorKate Jones
   • CommentTimeDec 10th 2009

    
   We are working with a developer called Spiritbond - come along to John Jones between 5-8pm on the 15th to find out more about the plans for the site.
   
   http://www.johnjones.co.uk/john-jones-news/john-jones-redevelopment-.aspx
2. • CommentAuthorgodzilla
   • CommentTimeDec 10th 2009

    
   Out of interest, are you taking over the site of the failed development on Morris Place/SGR? (Artist's impression looks like the whole block)
3. • CommentAuthorKate Jones
   • CommentTimeDec 10th 2009

    
   No unfortunately the neighbouring land owner was already quite far along with his plans and didn't want to join up - I think he is going to wait until our site is done now before he starts again but that may change. The artist's impression shows his development just to give an idea of what the whole lot will look like.
4. • CommentAuthorhellojo
   • CommentTimeDec 10th 2009

    
   Hi - is there a way to comment if we can't make it on Tuesday?
   Can you tell us who Spiritbond are (no website..)
   
   Thanks
5. • CommentAuthorKate Jones
   • CommentTimeDec 10th 2009

    
   Yes i've just realised they don't have a website - i will ask them about that and see what we can get online as information on their work. I am sure there will be a way to comment - I'll look into this and update either here or on our website.
   
   By the way we had an amusing (although scary incident) at John Jones the other evening - a piece of art in our latest exhibition was mistaken for a dead body... have a look at www.theartnewspaper.com for more info.
6. • CommentAuthorwideboy
   • CommentTimeDec 17th 2009

    
   I went to the public exhibition.
   
   This is a pretty major development being proposed. Ground + 5 floors makes it at least twice as high as any neighbouring building. Student accomodation for approx 450 will likely change the look and feel of local establishments for better or for worse - this is a big hall of residence being proposed. Also there will be fifteen 'affordable housing' flats managed by a "registered social landlord". Commercial space on ground floor on the Stroud Green road side.
   
   This will certainly change the look of this area.
   
   Sustainability bit: This boiled down to a bio-mass fulled heating for the student accomodation. Air-sourced heat-pumps for the affordable housing, and green roofs. When quizzed about ground-source heat pumps for the main student accomodation, the counter argument seemed to be that PV (electricity generating solar panels) were not particularly 'proven' in terms of payback, and something about under-floor heating pipes requiring another level of flooring. Couldn't help but think it was simply due to PV + ground source costing more. The commercial units could also benefit from ground-source heat pumps? The student housing has proposed bio-mass heating to keep a general background level of heat, with electric time-limited supplemental heating.
   
   Planning application likely to be made shortly in Janurary 2010
7. • CommentAuthorgodzilla
   • CommentTimeDec 17th 2009 edited

    
   Thanks for that info Wideboy.
   
   Am sure the shops/restaurants in the area won't have a problem with 450 studes moving in, though a big tower would significantly change the look of the place - SG is *almost* villagey. Does it look architecturally interesting? Or just a big block of concrete?
   
   I wonder if previous failed developments on that block (for clarification, I mean the street block that's already been 'under development' for a year with Vista housing thing) will have an impact on whether permission is granted - residents close to that area must be getting well hacked off with building works restricting access/causing upheavel/mess/disturbance for literally years.
8. • CommentAuthordorothy
   • CommentTimeDec 17th 2009

    
   It looks huge, on the plan. I read a little about Spiritbond and Kingston Council's plans for student accommodation. It seemed to have been a saga that went on for years. Although this isn't Metropolitan Open Land, so might be easier.
   
   Is there a University involved with this? Can't find list of the stakeholders involved.
   
   I wouldn't mind an influx of students. I think it can be great for an area. Camberwell I think is a much better place for all it's art's students, and I quite like Holloway Road because of that studenty vibe too. Stroud Green can be really dead in the daytime. I wonder how some of the traders scrape a living, at least students might help the local daytime economy, as well as evening. To me that building does look big and boring though.
9. • CommentAuthorwideboy
   • CommentTimeDec 17th 2009

    
   Hi,
   
   >> Am sure the shops/restaurants in the area won't have a problem with 450 studes moving in
   
   I agree, but talking from a residential viewpoint that is most definitely a mixed issue. After all, businesses are usually primarily focused on making money, otherwise they wouldn't exist right? Not against it, but what I'm to make clear is that local businesses *and* the property developer will have a common business imperative. One arguably short term, one longer term. Residents, on the other hand, have to live with this indefinitely and may not agree.
   
   >> SG is *almost* villagey
   
   Yep, and IMHO that's a very important point because slapping a big 6-storey block on that area will at the very least redefine the immediate area very significantly indeed. Next time you walk past the Worlds End pub, consider looking upwards twice as high to find the roof-line of this proposed development If planning is approved as-is, it will potentially pave the way for further neighbouring developments of a similar sort. So, on one hand this is an isolated re-development, on the other hand, this could be the first brick in that wall of creating a 'high street' shopping president, whereby other planning application are compared to this one. Fast-forward 3 years - say, the neighbouring block is bought and submits a planning application thus : "Our 6-storey flats development is in-keeping with the neighbouring John-Jones development". IMHO, this is how planning applications can, and do, roll.
   
   >> Does it look architecturally interesting?
   
   To be honest, no.
   
   >> dorothy : It looks huge, on the plan.
   
   Yep, and In my view, it *is* huge. The neighbouring buildings will be dwarfed - remember its x2 the height of neighbouring buildings i.e. the Worlds End pub which is ground + 2 floors.
   
   >> dorothy : To me that building does look big and boring though.
   
   Me too - why not make this is a genuinely interesting building with good sustainability credentials to boot. I'm in for that. I'm not in for a block of uber-bland commercial/student development on my doorstep with potentially iffy 'developer' motives.
   
   Your main influence in this will be during "consultation" i.e. the past exhibition, and, more importantly, upon the impeding planning application. This forum appears to be the only public space where the 'public exhibition' was posted?
10. • CommentAuthorReg
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2009 edited

     

    Looks to me like this is a pre-application consultation excercise so there are few formal requirements for publicity. They come later.

    I would like to add some concern at the bulk and scale of the building. Not so much on the SGR frontage but certainly on the corner of Lennox Road and Clifton Terrace. I think that the form should respect the domestic scale of the streets at that end.

    @Kate, has the scheme been tested for its effect on daylight/sunlight to the neighbours, and also their Rights to Light?

    @wideboy - "potentially iffy 'developer' motives'? Development is about profit and income. Simples.

11. • CommentAuthorgodzilla
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2009 edited

     
    There's a massive empty space on Seven Sisters road, that's just a big pile of rubble. That'd be an ideal spot for a college - or in one of those old office blocks on the Clissold Park side of Green Lanes. Dropping a tower into a residential area seems a bit much.
    ie, put it somewhere neraby that's already got similar buildings. T
12. • CommentAuthorwideboy
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2009

     
    @reg re: "potentially iffy 'developer' motives'?
    
    You’re right. I guess I was just trying to point out that developers aren't necessarily driven by what's best for the area.
13. • CommentAuthorwideboy
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2009

     
    I forgot to add that apparently the height of the planned building was the maximum that the council would potentially allow (not sure exacty what that means), with the very top floor set back on all sides.
14. • CommentAuthorgeorgiegirl
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2009

     
    g-unit, that's a good point. It should go on Seven Sisters Road.
    
    I live right opposite the World's End so reading this fills me with dread. I love the current view from my bedroom window but I can't see myself loving it with a massive ugly building blocking my view :o(
15. • CommentAuthordorothy
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2009

     
    I'm assuming John Jones wants to develop the site though, if it's not a student hostel, it'll be something else that has to be economically viable. I think the whole site isn't very attractive at the moment anyway. I agree though five storeys would look bad, from lots of directions, unless it was great design.
16. • CommentAuthorKate Jones
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2009

     
    Reg - yes the architect has carried out the required tests for dayight/sunlight to the neighbours, and also their Rights to Light.
    
    g-unit - this is the first time we have come close to a planning application, I'm not sure which 'previous failed developments' you are referring to - perhaps on the neighbouring site to us? We have bided our time to get it right and not to waste time.
    
    I must stress that John Jones are staying on site and its important to us that the scheme improves the local area. As well as working here ourselves (as we have done for 20 years), we want to ensure the building is appealing and welcoming to our clients too. Its been really tough to get art collectors from South London to visit us as Finsbury Park has such a bad name for itself...
    
    We really don't want to create something large and ugly, so we've really taken our time in finding a developer who we believe is empathic to the area and will deliver a scheme that is visually and socially appealing. We've been to visit other schemes that the architect David Gallagher has done and were impressed.
    
    Like it or not, there are significant other changes afoot in F Park - the CIL site being one of them. The height of our proposed building has been led by the planning approval that was granted to the neighbouring site (six stories) - this half built development is going to go ahead at some point and it has set the benchmark for future developments.
    
    We also don't want to end up with a building that is empty - as is the case with so many 'commercial' developments. Spiritbond's proposal presents the opportunity to develop a vibrant student community that will integrate with the area and support local business.
    
    What we have now is hardly benefitting the local area - at night its a large empty car park which is often the site of drug dealing and other salubrious activity. We really want to make things better for everyone. I realise that any change is going to be debated, but I hope that I can reassure local residents that we are not selling out and we genuinely want to benefit the area.
17. • CommentAuthorReg
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2009

     

    @Kate, do you have some more images of the building from different perspectives? Unless I am being dim there is only one on your website.

    I am not against large buildings at all and think that the area around the station is suitable for tall buildings but your site is the most sensitive in that it marks the transition from the "busiest station outside of Zone 1" in to a totally domestic area (both in activity and scale). Yes the precedent is set on SGR but this does not mean that this has to carry around the whole block.

    Also, I would be interested to know more about the student use. I know there is another consent at the end of Fonthill Road, and also a big one on Holloway Road. What will the occupation patterns be because from my experience they are only 'vibrant' for about 30 weeks of the year. I assume these would have been 'normal' residential units under different market conditions?

18. • CommentAuthorwideboy
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2009 edited

     
    @Kate : "We've been to visit other schemes that the architect David Gallagher has done and were impressed." Can you tell us what they are so we can see them too ?
    
    "..the CIL site being one of them. The height of our proposed building has been led by the planning approval that was granted to the neighbouring site (six stories) ...."
    
    Confused - what's CIL? Is this the next block along towards the station?
19. • CommentAuthormarkpack
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2009

     
    Kate: like others, I've got a lot of doubts about the size of the building that is proposed. Thanks though for sharing information and responding - particularly given we're not all agreeing with you.
20. • CommentAuthorandy
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2009 edited

     
    We are Ninja

    Kate - thanks for starting the discussion.

    From where I stand, the whole area around the station is a bit of a mess and crying out for redevelopment. City North is getting a bloody great big tower anyway:

    http://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/city-north-site-finsbury-park-london-by-benson-and-forsyth/5205872.article http://www.bdonline.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=3116455?

    I'm less interested in the look of the building than how it's used.

    I'd like John Jones to be an anchor tenant for a site with a bunch of mixed use artist/creative businesses, somewhere between a Coin St/Oxo Tower vibe and the Chocolate Factory in Wood Green.

    If the student flats could then be allocated to Goldsmiths or CSM, it could be fantastic.

21. • CommentAuthorandy
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2009 edited

     
    We are Ninja

    

    If I'm reading this right, the grey building on the front left with the domed roof is Vista's currently stalled development

    The road on the front left is Wells Terrace and the dark grey one on the far right is opposite the World's End.

    Given the scale of the City North project, this looks more exciting if the tenant mix is right, with the only caveat being that the white residential ones might be a bit high.

22. • CommentAuthorArkady
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2009

     
    Kate, I like the sound and appearance of the development, I think it could be exactly what the area needs.
    
    However 'salubrious' means healthy - I suspect that you meant unsalubrious. Although perhaps it was Freudian.
    
    B
23. • CommentAuthorcheckski
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2009

     
    Or even insalubrious, if we're being pedantic!
24. • CommentAuthordorothy
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2009

     
    I wonder if Kate meant 'lugubrious'.
    
    Never find the fact a huge development is going up on our doorsteps, and we'll never get a table in the Jai Krishna again or a drink in the World's End, it's so important to get the grammar right.
25. • CommentAuthorIan
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2009

     

    @dorothy. My experience of employing new graduates leads me to think that if 450 students live here and a large proportion join the site we will spend our lives correcting grammar ...

26. • CommentAuthordorothy
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2009

     
    If it's not grammar it's bloody speed humps.
27. • CommentAuthorwideboy
    • CommentTimeDec 29th 2009

     
    "A BESPOKE picture framers whose clients include artists Damien Hirst and David Hockney have unveiled plans for a new £30million headquarters - with almost 500 student rooms attached."
    
    http://www.islingtongazette.co.uk/content/islington/gazette/news/story.aspx?brand=ISLGOnline&category=news&tBrand=northlondon24&tCategory=newsislg&itemid=WeED23%20Dec%202009%2010%3A32%3A52%3A487
28. • CommentAuthorCllr Richard Watts
    • CommentTimeDec 29th 2009

     
    I'd be willing to be persuaded otherwise, but I'm not sure that lots more student housing would benefit the area. There is los if student housing in the area already, ith plenty more on the way. IN addition, Finsbury Park tends to suffer already from the transient nature of much of the local population and more students housing will, at best, not help this.
    
    There is a massive local need for more social housing and more 'intermediate' housing to help people get onto the housing ladder. Both of these forms of housing actually really do contribute to creating more sustainable local communities. I hope the developers will considered these options instead.
29. • CommentAuthorgodzilla
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2009

     
    Not that I'm massively in favour of the tower block, but I think putting the onus on John Jones and their chosen developers to provide 'intermediate' or social housing is a bit rich.
    
    FP / SG appears to have many studio/one-bed flats - surely these are first-step/intermediate housing. Planning Dept seem to have allowed too many houses to be converted into flats, so families need to leave the area, doing nothing to help the transient atmosphere. Perhaps stopping conversions/private landlords in FP/SG would be an idea?
30. • CommentAuthorAli
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2009

     

    Lots of families leave the area because of poor secondary schools. Witness what happens at SG School. A lot of parents move when their kids get to about 8/9 years old to get into catchment areas of better schools than offered at SG. That must affect the social mix of the area quite a bit leaving the less able to move youngsters and those who tough it out or have their kids travel. This kind of perpetuates the issue as the local secondary schools loose out as well. I don’t recon Haringey is doing much about this at all.

31. • CommentAuthortaff bach
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2009

     

    Many of the kids from Stroud Green go to Arts and Media, with 81% A-C at GCSE has much benefited from them, my kids went to Highgate Wood and didn't do well.

32. • CommentAuthorAli
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2009

     

    I was wondering where the 81% number comes from? Is it 2009 results because when I looked here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/education/08/schooltables/secondaryschools/html/206.stm which is based on 2008 numbers published in Jan 2009 it seemed to be 30% or am I misunderstanding something ? (quite likely). The last Ofsted Report in Jan 2008 seems to give a good report on the teaching approach etc so it would be good to see that filtering through into the kid’s achievements etc. I guess Ofsted must be due back for another inspection soon. Also what happens to kids that want to do A levels or go onto Univesrity?

33. • CommentAuthorReg
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2009 edited

     

    Arts and Media at 81%? From memory it came almost near the bottom of LB Islington in the Evening Standard round up this year, and Islington is the worst London borough.

    Just checked BBC website. Confirms 30% pass A-C.

    I agree with Ali. Schools should be the priority round here.

34. • CommentAuthorleiba1
    • CommentTimeDec 31st 2009

     
    Too high and too ugly. Why do all these developers want to dominate an area? They may meet the legal requirements regarding light and neighbours but walking down SGR it's nice to be able to look at a panorama of the sky towards the park and opposite towards Islington. This 6 story building will mean we'll only have a narrow strip of sky to look at. Only the tennants on the upper floors will have a nice view, the rest of us will see only concrete and glass.
35. • CommentAuthortaff bach
    • CommentTimeDec 31st 2009

     

    Arts and Media came second in Islington behind St Aloysius (sp.?) and they have a somewhat uninclusive policy.

36. • CommentAuthortaff bach
    • CommentTimeDec 31st 2009

     

    Most students go on to City and Islington and a number to Woodhouse.

37. • CommentAuthorAli
    • CommentTimeDec 31st 2009

     

    City and Islington looks like an impressive place wit a very positive web site http://www.candi.ac.uk/

    Even has connections with Corpus Christi, University Challenge here you come !

38. • CommentAuthorJoeV
    • CommentTimeDec 31st 2009

     
    Is there some sort of break for developers who build student housing? They seem to be going up all over the place. There's one planned for Isledon Road and a huge, massively ugly concrete block has opened outside the Tottenham Hale train station.
39. • CommentAuthordorothy
    • CommentTimeJan 4th 2010

     
    There's also a large one in Stoke Newington, a friend of mine lives close to it. Like Reg she's noticed it's filled with students for 30 weeks of the year and then in the summer it serves as cheap tourist accommodation. Not exactly a Coin St/Chocolate factory vibe.
    
    I can see the site needs developing, it's been awful for years. However I'm sorry to say that it doesn't actually inspire confidence that John Jones have left it that way for 20 years already. The existing John Jones building is unimaginative to say the least for an arts focussed organisation. There are probably reasons etc, but it's not impressive as a track record.
40. • CommentAuthorpoxy
    • CommentTimeJan 5th 2010 edited

     
    Dorothy: That must rank as one of the most asinine posts I've ever read on this forum.
    
    5 or 6 cheap shots against one undeserving target in a single paragraph. Well done.
41. • CommentAuthorReg
    • CommentTimeJan 5th 2010

     

    JoeV, not a break exactly but the residential market is in the doldrums, you can't raise finance to build flats at the moment and you're also required to provide affordable housing. When you do the numbers, student accomodation is more profitable and you can sell it to a fund and not have to rely on individuals.

42. • CommentAuthordorothy
    • CommentTimeJan 5th 2010

     
    @poxy, thanks, I suppose that will teach me to post coming home from the pub on the bus.
    
    I’ve never liked that orange box not facing the street thing, seemed like a real waste.
    
    I’ve no doubt that John Jones with their developers have good intentions. From experience I am suspicious about developers, all that stuff about how we care, we’re ethical, we're part of the community is really heart felt, but can all go tits up when it comes to the economic realities.
43. • CommentAuthorgodzilla
    • CommentTimeJan 5th 2010

     
    Agree with Dorothy, the 8ft high fence around an industrial factory unit was never a nice look.
    
    And yes, Vista (blue hoarding building site next to JJ) not a good advert for developers. "Oh the market's bottomed out and we need another builder? Let's just leave the place looking like cr@p for the next year until it picks up and we can turn a profit, we live in Hampstead and don't have to walk past it every day".
    
    I've just realised, Vista are unlikely to be chuffed at the idea that their luxury flats (should they ever happen) will be surrounded by the biggest building site in N4 for the foreseeable. Not a great selling point.
44. • CommentAuthorDavid
    • CommentTimeJan 5th 2010

     
    We are Ninja

    Rather dismissive poxy, I think dorothy's point is reasonable.

45. • CommentAuthorArkady
    • CommentTimeJan 6th 2010

     
    Are there any pictures of the development proposal online, other than the one on the John Jones site?
    
    My first reaction is that it looks good, and would radically improve the area. Given how high City North will be this development will represent a mid-point between the surrounding 2-3 story buildings and the centre of FP at City North. Given that it's at the bottom of the hill it shouldn't impact the skyline significantly. And there is a limited amount of space for which high-rise is remotely feasible immediately north of FP, I think fears of 'tower creep' north into SG is probably unfounded. There are plenty of towers that I think should come down (like the one near the junction of Crouch Hill and Mount View) because they are ugly and out of context, but much of the area west and immediately north of the station would benefit from being levelled and redeveloped, and some well-chosen iconic structures would not go amiss.
    
    B
46. • CommentAuthorArkady
    • CommentTimeJan 6th 2010

     
    Also, a neighbouring development has been mentioned here a few times, one that is currently on hold. Is that for the Wells Terrace/Morris Place plot currently occupied by ugly buildings and the car wash? Are there any details of the development online, planning applications, etc?
    
    B
47. • CommentAuthorKate Jones
    • CommentTimeJan 22nd 2010

     
    Thanks for the comments - some of the more specialist questions I will hand over to our planning consultants to get back on...
    
    @Dorothy, Yes i agree with you completely, our current site is an eyesore. Nasty red brick around a big concrete car park and a wire security fence. It really doesn't reflect what we do at all. However, one thing I must point out is that whilst we're successful in terms of our reputation in the artworld and the types of client we work for, we are not in a financial position to facelift the current site (the recent article about a £3m Damien Hirst job was not correct! we wish it were). Have you ever been INSIDE John Jones? Its much different on the inside and we want our new building to reflect us on the outside too... We've done the best we can with what we have now, but to really make improvements - and ones that will have longevity (currently 2nd generation family business, which will hopefully get to 3rd generation one day!) - we have to turn to developers to help us.
    
    I can't repeat enough how important it is for us to develop something of benefit to the local area. We're still in discussions with Islington, Developer, Architects and whilst we have to be realistic (if we don't build up, there isn't a financial incentive for the developers to work with us so nasty red brick building won't be going anywhere...), we will pay attention to the comments made and hopefully achieve at least 99% approval from local residents ;-)
    
    In the meantime I'll leave you with an art recommendation - we've just framed the show at Whitechapel Gallery Where Three Dreams Cross. Its a survey of photography from Bangladesh, Pakistan and India - works from the past 150 years, many of which have never been seen before. Some amazing stories are told through the images http://www.whitechapelgallery.org/exhibitions/where-three-dreams-cross-150-years-of-photography-from-india-pakistan-and-bangladesh
48. • CommentAuthorArkady
    • CommentTimeJan 22nd 2010

     
    Thanks for the update Kate. Are you able to give us an idea of timelines, when we should be able to see the planning application, etc?
    
    Have you heard any further rumours about the progress of the neighbouring development facing Stroud Green Rd? If it's stalled indefinitely then we probably ought to start protesting about the hording.
    
    Arky
49. • CommentAuthorbennyfromtheblok
    • CommentTimeJan 22nd 2010

     
    Hi Kate - I was at the Whitechapel gallery last night for the opening and a Q&A with the curators and some of the photographers. I'd encourage people to go and have a look as most of the work has never been seen outside of India or Bangladesh and is very good....oh, they have great frames too!
50. • CommentAuthorRichard
    • CommentTimeJan 22nd 2010

     
    Hi all (another new poster here!)
    
    @Kate: This suggestion probably comes a little late in the process, but why not throw open the task of designing the new building to an architectural competition. That way you give a chance for young and up-and-coming architects to express new and exciting ideas. This may be less common for smaller developments but it is certainly a tried and tested process and would certainly seem more in keeping with your organisation’s philosophy. In this market you'd probably get responses from some proven, high quality outfits too! You'd be far more likely to end up with an inspiring building as a result.
    
    I did go to the open day - many thanks for organising this and giving us a chance to comment. I'm sorry to say that I was a little underwhelmed. While I can see that tricky logistical issues are addressed quite effectively by the proposal, and there is some reflection of the local architecture (bricks, tall slim building segments like the terraces), it is not very exciting or imaginative.
    
    There was a statement in the intro saying that the highest ‘sustainablilty’ standards where being strived for, or something to that effect. I gather that the residential areas are aimed at Code for Sustainable Homes level 4. The requirements for level 4 are a long way short of the highest (level 6). In fact, elements of code 4 are expected to become the legal minimum this year. From the looks of the highly glazed commercial areas, I can’t image these will be high performing either. So, I though the statement was dishonest and there was not much in imagery to suggest a design which responds to the environment effectively enough to be properly low-impact.
    
    All of the perspective views displayed at the open-day were from above, as if the viewer was floating by on a hot air baloon. I would have appreciated some street level views to give a better sense of scale (the elevations go some way but you’d have to hundreds of meters away to get a similar view). Not only is the proposed building about three times the height of the existing, it also extends much closer to the site perimeter. I am not against taller buildings but the proposed design is quite a lump! There would certainly be less imposing ways of achieve a similar volume of sellable/lettable space. Could some of the internal courtyard space be position on the outside for example?
    
    With economical conditions as they are you should be is strong position in terms of choosing developer and architect. You’re the boss! If you are going to stick with your current developer and architect then they may need to be pushed a bit harder if you want something a little more imaginative to come out of this process.
51. • CommentAuthorwideboy
    • CommentTimeJan 26th 2010 edited

     
    @Richard Your points about Sustainable homes standards (4 vs 6) are similar to some of my comments about the City North plans.
    
    I also thought that many of the drawings failed to show the side profile of the John Jones design in relation to the neighbouring buildings.
52. • CommentAuthordorothy
    • CommentTimeJan 27th 2010 edited

     
    @kate, I know I'm a bit sniffy about your current building, but one thing I do like, is your little front lawn, especially when it has the daisies on it in the summer. I like the climbing shrubs on the fence too. You can hear birdsong there sometimes. (Little things, make me happy). It must be a drag having to cut that lawn constantly, so I'm grateful to whoever does it.
    
    Like Richard, above, I feel it would be great to see more of the courtyard/green space on the outside of the build, think it makes a real difference seeing a bit of green, especially there.
    
    I haven't been into John Jones for a while, I admit. I used to go into the shop a lot when you sold art materials. It doesn't seem very inviting. I'll give it a go though.
53. • CommentAuthorSlabber
    • CommentTimeJan 31st 2010

     
    I have been banned
    450 students going on about why they prefer FP [Finsbury Park] to Stokey [Stoke Newington]? The Fullback will be unbearable...
    
    Good news for the Budget Supermarket though, on the corner of Woodstock Road.
54. • CommentAuthorwideboy
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2010

     
    The planning application for this has now gone in:
    
    Application details
55. • CommentAuthorArkady
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2010

     
    Thanks wideboy. How long does it normally take them to get the documents online, I wonder.
    Arky
56. • CommentAuthorwideboy
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2010

     
    By comparison, The City North application had all the docs attached from the off. I've emailed matthew.rosel@islington.g.... to ask if they can be attached.
57. • CommentAuthorwideboy
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2010

     
    Received reply, said it should be resolved by this Friday.
58. • CommentAuthormpc
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2010

     
    It does seem a shame that the genuinely historic ex-Scala cinema building (one of London's earliest purpose-built cinemas) was destroyed for a development that has now - from what I read here - stalled.
    
    Residents in Stroud Green (Harringey) have not had much chance to consult, over Islington Council's plans according to Richard Wilson, a local LibDem Councillor, in his blog.
59. • CommentAuthorArkady
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2010

     
    Cheers for that wideboy. Why does it take four days to upload some documents...
    
    Was the ex-Scala in really bad condition? Was it worth saving?
    Arky
60. • CommentAuthorActionVerb
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2010

     
    It shouldn't really take that long to get everything online, as presumably, the application would have been submitted electronically. It may be that the Council have to print out the application documents,stamp the relevant application number for clarification and scan it again, although from memory, i think for the City North Development they uploaded the original electronic copies. So err, I don't know is the conclusion here. Presumably the public consultation hasn't started yet if the docs aren't online.
    
    With regard to wider consultation - there's no requirement for anything more than the standard neighbour consultation, i presume islington will be consulting haringey residents given that they are neighbours as well as consulting haringey council itself?
61. • CommentAuthorArkady
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2010

     
    Officially the consultation started yesterday.
    Arky
62. • CommentAuthorwideboy
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2010

     
    Update :
    
    "....the drawing should be available to view tomorrow [wednesday 16th feb 2010] evening."
63. • CommentAuthormarkpack
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2010

     
    From the outside, the ex-cinema looked in really bad condition and had been that way for years. I expect that's why a proposal to replace it with a new building didn't generate protests (certainly when I heard it was going to be knocked down I thought that was good news).
64. • CommentAuthorArkady
    • CommentTimeFeb 17th 2010

     
    Planning docs are up now.
    Arky
65. • CommentAuthorArkady
    • CommentTimeFeb 17th 2010

     
    It looks like the appendices are missing, the detailed plans and elevations are absent. Unless this an outline proposal? I wonder whether the inclusion of new streetscape plans in the Transport Assessment is meant to imply that these will be funded by the development, I can't see any explicit mention of that.
    
    On the whole I think this looks very impressive. I'd like to see detailed renders of the facades though.
    
    Arky
66. • CommentAuthorActionVerb
    • CommentTimeFeb 17th 2010

     
    It's a full app rather than outline, but certainly lacks all the plans. The streetscape improvements may be part of the legal agreement, in which case they will follow on. It may be that any redevelopment of the site, given that it's a designated action area, will need to deliver the streetscape improvements.
67. • CommentAuthorArkady
    • CommentTimeFeb 17th 2010 edited

     
    I'll chase the detailed plans. In the meantime there's a good one of the ground floor on P28 of the Transport document (W17) and low-res versions of the other floors starting on page 16 of the noise assessment (W14), of all places.
    Hope you're right about the streetscape, it certainly needs doing.
    Arky
68. • CommentAuthormarkpack
    • CommentTimeFeb 18th 2010

     
    Thanks for the tip off about the plans being up Arky.
    
    The archaeological documents in there are worth a look as they include old street maps showing what the area used to be like. There were an awful lot of fields in 1862...
69. • CommentAuthorArkady
    • CommentTimeFeb 18th 2010

     
    If I recall correctly the historical maps are even more extensive in the City North application.
    
    They still haven't put the actual plans up, I shall chase again tomorrow in a more threatening tone.
    
    Incidentally, I have a brief meeting with the CEO of Argent - the company responsible for the Kings Cross redevelopment - on Monday. If anyone has any questions they would like me to ask I'd be happy to. There's a slight SG connection, as the planned student accommodation on the John Jones site is aimed at catering for students at the University of the Arts which will shortly be moving to the KX development.
    Arky
70. • CommentAuthorArkady
    • CommentTimeFeb 19th 2010

     
    "As yet I have not been provided with an update on when the
    plans may be viewed online, but I am hopeful that this will be before
    mid-next week at the latest."
71. • CommentAuthorArkady
    • CommentTimeFeb 19th 2010

     
    I now have these plans, so if anyone is desperate to see them before they go online drop me a whisper with your email address. It's a 4mg file, mind.
    Arky
72. • CommentAuthorKate Jones
    • CommentTimeFeb 25th 2010

     
    For anyone who hasn't accessed our planning application, there are a couple of new images on our website http://www.johnjones.co.uk/john-jones-news/john-jones-development.aspx
    
    Re the building next to us that has stalled - did it really used to be a cinema? When we moved in it was a bit of a sweatshop as far as we remember - something to do with fashion garments.
    
    On a separate note, I heard recently that the old Sense building on Clifton Terrace is being turned into a 350 seater theatre...
73. • CommentAuthorArkady
    • CommentTimeFeb 25th 2010

     
    Kate, I’ve studied your application in a genuinely geeky amount of detail, and I think it’s a brilliant proposal. I’ve formally commented on it to that effect to Islington Council. I took the liberty of mentioning it the internet’s premier development-nerd-central, where it has also drawn a supportive comment: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1030381&highlight=finsbury+park
    
    It’s a shame that Godfrey’s don’t want to get involved. What’s their take on it?
    
    There’s some history of the cinema on this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Stroud_Green,_London
    
    Best of luck, Arky
74. • CommentAuthorArkady
    • CommentTimeFeb 25th 2010

     
    PS: if you have more pictures I'd love to see them.
    A
75. • CommentAuthorTrish
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2010

     
    Hi Kate,
    I think the development looks really good but the yellow car wash will look a bigger eye sore now.
    As a long standing customer of Godfrey’s I have picked up my Christmas meat’s from Finsbury park for years now. And I also find it very useful throughout the year because parking restrictions in Highbury Barn. I hope Godfrey stays on the site. I wonder to what the Godfrey’s take on it is .
    I also wonder if Godfrey’s would consider opening a shop on the corner for retail, I’m sure it would be a great success and good for the area too. This is a butchers shop that was voted by the public as London’s best local shop.
76. • CommentAuthorArkady
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2010

     

    @Trish – the Wells terrace block housing the carwash is also part of the wider FP development plan. Hopefully the two neighbouring developments will provide the spur to have the current site raised and replaced with something fitting. It’s a shame that Godfrey’s isn’t joining the John Jones plan. A new building on the same scale of the rest of the development could allow them ground floor retail, the ‘factory’ on the floor above (with more space than they have currently) and the development could be paid for with three stories of accommodation above. Hard to understand why they aren’t getting involved. Arky

77. • CommentAuthorJaneDoe
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2010

     
    A good local butcher would be fantastic!
78. • CommentAuthorArkady
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2010

     

    Sausages. That is all.

79. • CommentAuthorsiobhan
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2010

     
    Hi, I am Siobhan Godfrey a part of the Godfrey family who currently own the freehold at Morris Place.
    
    A bit of our background might be helpful. We are 4th generation butcher family, with the 5th generation starting work next year. We have had premises in Highbury barn since 1905, and had other shops in the borough over the past century.
    
    We moved into Morris Place 15 years ago, and were over the moon with a modern purpose built catering unit within half a mile of our shop, and less than 10 minutes into the City and West End.
    
    We bought the freehold to our site the same time as John Jones Ltd did.
    
    We have been approaching on a very casual basis a few times by John Jones with a view to buying our premises, but we didn't want to sell as we feel our whole family ethos is based on work and great service, not sitting back in Marbella with a cocktail!.
    
    More recently we were asked by Spiritbond if there were any circumstances in which we would vacate our premises, and we agreed on the basis that they found us similar premises within easy reach of our customer base. We even employed our own agent with a view to finding this property. The only option given to us was a move to Hornsey, more than half and hour away. This would have meant making some of our team redundant. Many of our staff currently use the night bus to come to work, but that does not go out as far as Hornsey. So we declined.
    
    Since that time, apart from the invitation to view the plans at John Jones they seem not to want to deal with us anymore. And have decided to build around us.
    
    We have always had a good relationship with John Jones, and were in favour of the redevelopment, especially if it meant we could perhaps have a shop front and the catering unit above. So perhaps if they are out there reading this - Come over and talk to us!
80. • CommentAuthorsiobhan
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2010

     
    sorry, small comment to Arkady - whilst we are a specialist, award winning sausage makers, we cover the full spectrum of catering meat services. We provide Scotch Beef and traditional free range pork to some of Londons top hotels and restuaurants, we also have been working closely with a company that provides food to all the super yachts across the world.
81. • CommentAuthorArkady
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2010

     

    Thanks so much for that Siobhan. Sounds like you staying and being able to be involved in the redevelopment would be the best for everyone, especially if you and residents can benefit from your excellent butchers having a retail frontage there! Really hope that works out. If not, maybe you can think about planning your own redevelopment? As noted earlier, you can probably fund it through selling off residential floors above… A

82. • CommentAuthorArkady
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2010 edited

     

    Incidentally, I know your butchers in Highbury well. Many a hungover weekend morning has been saved by the quality of your astonishingly high-quality grillable meaty produce. The thought of you having a retail outlet closer to where I now live in northern Stroud Green actually brings tears to my eyes. Please resolve any issues with your neighbours and make this happen. Give the word and I’ll come down and start digging the foundations myself. A

83. • CommentAuthorIan
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2010

     

    Siobhan - can we buy direct from Morris Place? I didn't know you were there but Trish seems to suggest that she gets meat from you at that place. If you do I have a freezer I could fill with all manner of animals ...

84. • CommentAuthorJaneDoe
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2010

     
    I'm with Arkady on this one. It would be a joy to have a Godfrey's retail outlet in Finsbury Park. The one in Highbury looks great but it's just too far to walk on a regular basis.
85. • CommentAuthorRichard
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2010

     
    Arkady’s idea sounds good to me, a few storeys of great modern facilities for your business Siobhan, a fantastic retail outlet for the locals, and all paid for by the extra student accommodation provided above. Part of the deal with Jones/Spiritbound could be for temporary relocation and a disruption allowance to cover added travel costs etc.
    
    I may have been a bit disparaging about the design but I do like the in-built potential for extending the student blocks across over Godfrey’s in future should a mutually benefitial opportunity arise.
    
    I was also somewhat appeased by the ambition to achieve BREEAM ‘Excellent’ which should hopefully mean a fairly sustainable building (whatever 'sustainable' means!). Still think the design is a bit bland overall. How about something a bit more exciting like the new City North?!
86. • CommentAuthordion
    • CommentTimeMar 8th 2010

     

    The vista crane has disappeared. Ominous?

87. • CommentAuthorArkady
    • CommentTimeMar 8th 2010

     

    I was wondering about that. But the landowner, the construction firm and the owner of the crane are likely to be three different people. we know the construction firm went bust, and we know the landowner was trying to sell. The removal of the crane might simply mean that the hire firm has reclaimed it. Arky

88. • CommentAuthorwideboy
    • CommentTimeMar 12th 2010

     
    @Richard While this development does classify in the 'Excellent' BREEAM band, it does so by a few 1/10ths of a percent.
    
    >> How about something a bit more exciting like the new City North?!
    
    With regards to BREEAM, the City North development doesn't reach the 70% mark (threshold for "Excellent") even from the outset. Interesting, because Islington Councils mandatory minimum is also "Excellent".
89. • CommentAuthorKate Jones
    • CommentTimeMar 12th 2010

     
    Siobhan - I'd love to meet with you about this! Are you there Weds/ Thurs next week? We have various people helping us with the development so it would seem communication has somehow been lost or diluted between JJ and Godfreys - lets meet!
90. • CommentAuthorDonnaW
    • CommentTimeApr 9th 2010

     

    There's now a 'To Let' sign on the blue fence.

    Could there be progress in the air?

    I really hope so.

91. • CommentAuthordorothy
    • CommentTimeMay 17th 2010

     
    Noticed the hoardings coming off this morning.
92. • CommentAuthorArkady
    • CommentTimeMay 17th 2010

     

    They were moving them earlier in the week to create more pavement space - the workman said he was employed to do it by the council 'because it was dangerous'.

93. • CommentAuthorArkady
    • CommentTimeJul 14th 2010

     

    I hear that the John Jones planning app. meeting has been put back to October.

    Has anyone heard anything about the neighbouring 'Vista' development?