Zebra crossing Florence/Tollington
  • dion

    Does anyone else think that this crossing is dangerous? Cars just zoom by and don't stop.

    Any ideas as to what to do about it?

  • doctorlalloo
    I'm from the Midlands, where Zebra crossings are well respected. I've found in my 15 years living in London that they're seen as 'optional' by a lot of London drivers, sorry to generalise, but I've had more near misses in London in the last month than most people oop north ever have in their lifetimes.

    I have a near miss on the Florence/Tollington Zebra crossing almost every morning, even though I'm usually wearing a bright red jacket at 6:30am when there's hardly any traffic.

    It might do better as a pelican crossing as that would also help cars turning right from Florence Road, as the red light would stop traffic approaching from the left and make it safer to do so.
  • miss annie
    Most road markings (and even traffic lights occasionally) seem to be viewed as optional in London.

    I tend to just walk on to zebra crossings when there's a safe enough gap without making any eye contact with the drivers at all. If you look at them they they take it as a signal that you are afraid and just plough on - like horses, they can smell your fear.

    Everyone who drives in London seems to be barking mad with little or no road sense. I think that this is because they are all out of townies who learned to drive in the sticks where there was no other way of getting around. I don't know anyone who was born in London that would ever bother to drive here.
  • ADGS
    The red lights where Tollington meets SGR certainly seem to operate using some sort of slow light which drivers don't see 'til the light has been red some time. It's even worse if they're turning right. The eye contact bit seems to work with some of them, other than that I can only suggest attempting to fuck up their paintwork with anything metal you may have on your person. I've only managed this once or twice but oh, such satisfying justice.
  • dorothy
    I use that crossing a lot, when I'm not cycling. It is a bit zoomy. I just walk out like Miss Annie, but I do make eye contact with drivers. But yes some drivers just go on even when I'm half way across, shocking.

    Sometimes when I walk out recklessly, they have to stop suddenly and my fantasy is that I think it teaches them a lesson to take more care there in future.

    That road feels quick sometimes, but I think the crossing on Ferme Park Road, by Stapleton Hall Road can be just as bad. I drive as well, (yes I did learn in the sticks). I've been overtaken driving on Tollington, even if I'm doing around 30mph, not sure if it's because I instinctively drive more slowly around Stroud Green generally.

    Were there certain times of day you were worried about? What about a lollypop lady? I think lights would slow the traffic down too much.
  • dion

    All the time really. The road bends the wrong way for both sides of traffic so the pedestrians waiting are slightly out of the line of sight of the drivers. I drive as well (and was born in London) and I know that it is quite hard to see people waiting.

    I don't think lights would slow down the traffic that much as they all have to stop at the diagonal crossing lights anyway.

  • Temeraire
    Maybe I am just used to it (being a Londoner) but haven't had any near misses on that crossing. I do tend to walk out confidently which gets cars to stop (touch wood), though obviously not if the car is going very fast. I find the Stapleton hall road one, beside Londis, scarier due to the corner and the speed some people drive down the hill.
  • Jenowl
    The Tollington/Florence/Victoria area is an accident blackspot. I have seen several crashes round there, including a car that ploughed into the garden wall of a house on the corner.

    At the Tollington/SGR crossroads I have started doing a 'modern cross' - boldly striding diagonally across the road (when required) instead of scuttling across the two roads in a right-angle arrangement. You have to be really quick because the lights change very fast there and pedestrians don't get much time.

    I was inspired to do this by the great new Oxford Circus 'modern crossing'.
  • Tallboy
    I didn't realise that manouvre had a name. I have been "modern crossing" from the top left of SGR to the left hand side of Stapleton for years. You have to anticipate the green man and set off before he flashes.
  • miss annie
    Watching the lights that the cars see, rather the green man for pedestrians is the way forward.
  • Tallboy
    That's the trick. Don't wait til you see the green man, anticipate him by judging the lights. Although sometimes the traffic lights don't allow a pedestrian cut-in at the top of SGR. So, once the green man has gone, traffic runs across Stapleton and Hanley. Then they stop. Then traffic runs up and down SGR. Then you should get the green man again. But sometimes he misses a go, and the Stapleton/Hanley traffic starts again!
  • Jenowl
    Tallboy: Surely not! Why would he miss a go? Aren't they set in a three-go rotation?
  • Tallboy
    You would think so, but I promise you not. Many occcasions I stood my turn waiting for the green man, but he gets missed out and the traffic gets another turn. Could just be that the lights are playing up. They are often on the blink and temporary ones are put in their place.
  • Cat
    The greenman will miss ago if no one has pressed the button. If the button has been pressed and it misses ago then there's likely to be a fault with the lights or the push button.

    Because of my job I know quite a bit about traffic lights...
  • dion

    Cat - what is the best way for me to get someone to consider changing the tollington florence zebra into a pedestrian traffic light crossing?

  • Cat
    Dion - You'd be best contacting the council.
  • Mujo
    I did write to the council about both the fact the crossing is dangerous and that perhaps a light controlled crossing might be safer. Had a letter back from Lynne Featherstone saying she had raised the issue but nothing happened. I wrote a second time where I also asked if anything could be done about the dog muck all over the pavements and got no response at all.
  • Ali

    It is not that long ago( 6 years or so) that there was no green man at all at the crossing of Tolington & SGR. There was a local campaign to get it put in and over come the criteria that lot of people have to be killed before the council will do it ! Can’t remember who organised that but it was pretty effective.

  • nick_m

    I was crossing the zebra when a man drove up and then continued without stopping, so i flicked him the v's and he flicked them right back. I wasn't agrieved; it was a classic British encounter.

  • lynnefeatherstone
    Mujo - really sorry if something has gone astray. Can you email featherstonel@parliament.uk and say I asked you to email in for my personal attention off of Stroud Green net and tell me your real name, address etc and just outline the follow-up issue again. Happy to chase and nag. Best Lynne
  • Misscara
    Lynne, can you do something about the copious amounts of dogshit on the Oxford/Upper Tollington corner?

    Perhaps a poo bin is the answer? I'm sick and tired of having to tiptoe my way through the piles of it as it seems that the dogs can't hold on the extra couple of minutes it takes to get to the park and if the owners do bother to clean it up, the bags usually end up on or over my wall.
  • the northern heights

    Dear Ms Featherstone -

    Please can you read and put a comment on the thread from a few days ago on here called "why aren't covered reservoirs on Mount View Rd open to the public" - where I asked you some questions? I would prefer if you commented on that thread for all to see rather than me sending you a Email.Thank you very much for any comments.

    I agree that plenty of drivers go through red lights at the junction of Stroud Green Rd and Tollington Park. Can't old bill stick a few plain clothes rozzers on this junction and nick some of these drivers? And then tell us how many bad boy drivers they have nabbed in a story in the local papers. Many drivers treat a red traffic light as a suggestion that they should speed up rather than stop,they are common riff-raff and deserve to have their white vans crushed...

  • David

    That zebra crossing onto Florence really does stick out as dangerous. It just seems more game than others for cars to not stop. I've nearly been hit several times. On the flip side I've cycled up and stopped for someone to cross only for a car to speed through past me nearly taking out the crosser who has quite rightly started to cross because I've stopped for them.

    One of these things happens almost every time I cross it.

  • ShaunG

    Much as I appreciate MPs taking up local issues, these are all council matters and we should get on to our councillors in the first instance. With no disrespect to Lynne, they may actually be more effective.

  • the northern heights

    Dear Old Bill and local councillors,

    Plod must read this: to see what is making the natives restless...

    So please can the feds tell us on here what they are going to do about drivers jumping red traffic lights at the junction of Stroud Green Rd and Tollington Park, before there is a serious car crash?

    And can local councillors chase up the rozzers about this please? And report back here? To tell us what is being done about it? Fanks...

    SG cops must read this when they are not munching on jammy doughnuts and slurping coffee;and driving through piles of empty carboard boxes when chasing crooks (or is that just on TV?)

    Plod comments regularly on the harringay.com forum to answer Mrs Mopp's many notes and queries...Where's plod on SG.org then?

    How come plod is ingnoring the Mrs Mopp characters on ere then?

    "We're The Sweeney and we haven't had any dinner"

    Fank you very much gov for wot u done for straaaaaaad green...

    P.S It's just for personal use officer,one eighth of Moroccan Rocky...

  • andy

    That is top-drawer drivel, tnh. I can't imagine anyone will dare ignore it.

  • JungleFaceJake
    'Put your Knickers on and make me a cAaap of Teaa!'
  • Ali

    Oxford/Upper Tollington corner is really bad for dog muck see very time I take the kids to school !

  • Ian

    From what I can decipher of TNH he is speaking of an issue close to our heart. The junction of Stroud Green and Tollington is dangerous for exactly his point - cars jumping the red light driving west.

    We often want to turn right onto Stroud Green at that junction and because cars jump the lights coming west it is extremely dangerous. There is no gap between the lights going red and the Stroud green lights going green and the red light jumpers make the turn very precarious. A small tweak to the phasing - either letting more time for right turn or just keep the red on for slightly longer would improve it and feel more safe (and help stop Tollington Park clogging up going East).

    Or, as TNH says, just police it properly. At least that's what I think he said.

  • Busby
    Bring back the lollipop lady who was there in the early fifties!
  • lynnefeatherstone
    Misscara - can't find the post you refer to. The title you give me is not on the page that is displayed of previous threads.

    More than happy to take up issues - but really helpful if you can email to featherstonel@parliament.uk as then it goes into my workstream. If you need to post my replies - that's fine too.
  • the northern heights

    Ms Featherstone - the thread I refered to earlier on this thread is on page 3 of previous threads now on this forum. Thank you very much. I am talking about the thread i started about covered reservoir.

    I would rather people on this forum saw the reply that you write on here rather than send mails to you...

  • Cllr Richard Wilson
    Hi. The issue with speeding traffic and the crossing on Upper Tollington Park is one that Cllr Ed Butcher and I have raised a numbers of times over the last few years – as residents keep raising it with us. As a result of my nagging I was promised back in November 2009 that new signs would be put up to make the crossing clearer to drivers. However, on the key point of whether the crossing should be upgraded and have traffic lights to stop the traffic, the Council keep saying they will look into it but nothing happens.

    We’ll keep up the pressure on the Council – and see if we can think of any new ways of forcing them to take action.

    In the shorter term, I’ve emailed our local neighbourhood police sergeant and the Council’s community safety team and asked them to increase patrols and surveillance of the area in the hope they can actually catch some of these irresponsible drivers.

    Regards,

    Richard
  • Slabber
    No one stops at the crossing outside Tesco unless you stand in the middle of the road and force them to.
  • Slabber
    I think it's peculiar to Finsbury Park drivers because, for instance, people do generally stop at zebra crossings in Muswell Hill.
  • ADGS
    If there's an anomaly there it's the well-behaved Muswell Hill drivers.
  • tosscat

    I do not like Mussie Hill.

  • emine

    Part of the problem, if you are heading east up Upper Tollington Park, is the parked cars just before the crossing makes it impossible to see if anyone is about to cross. I always slow down in case they are, but plenty don't. Also, I think UTP limit is 30mph, but Tollington Park is 20mph; anyway, people definitely start speeding as soon as they get through the lights.

    The crossing by Tesco is a proper death trap - very few cars stop there. Just this afternoon, I waited as three cars sped by, completely oblivious to the crossing.

  • doctorlalloo
    I'm gonna get one of those 'Stinger' things they use on cop shows and throw that out across the Zebra crossing before I step out.

    If drivers decide to carry on instead of stop they'll soon be needing 4 new tyres.
  • doctorlalloo
    or I'll get one of these:

  • poxy
    That's just silly.
  • ADGS
    I'd prefer some kind of force-field effect which kicked in when lights went red. Seeing audacious cars concertina or chopped in two would surely brighten any pedestrian's day.
  • ArkadyArkady

    I recommend using keys or boot heels to inflict damage on the passing car. If the driver stops and attempts to exit the vehicle a potent kick to the car door as their head emerges usually discourages them from pursuing the matter further, and makes them think twice about doing it again. For added impact explain loudly exacty why the perpetrator is a selfish, inconsiderate and dangerous fool, and punctuate this with a string of expletives. Arky

  • sincers
    Since Haringey is being roundly slaughtered in every council ranking system going, surely its up to us to make sure we do something to change it when given the chance. The road traffic management, parking etc. is generally pretty appalling around SG. Their attitude tends to be to come down on those who live within spirit of the community, but dealing with those that don't is too much hassle.
  • ADGS
    I'm always wary of using keys just in case one of them gets bent out of shape in the process and leaves me locked out. Whereas I never use the belt on my coat, so if its buckle gets bent, so what?
  • StroudGreen.SNT
    As Cllr Wilson has stated, he has brought this matter to our attention. My officers are aware of it and have been tasked to look out for any offences. Today 26th Mar from 8-9.30am my team were in Upper Tollington Park conducting a "Stop It" operation with Haringey Council to target possible Fly tippers. Whilst there we also monitored this crossing. As a result several drivers were spoken to and advised about the dangers and possible offences. One driver was issued with a fixed penalty notice which will result in 3 points endorsed on their licence.
    We intend to continue to monitor this crossing and carry out similar visits over the next few weeks and issue further fixed penalty notices.
    If anyone wishes to discuss this or any other issue affecting Stroud Green area (Haringey side) please contact us on 0208 721 2837 or email stroudgreen.snt@met.police.uk
    Thanks Bob Stevenson, Sgt Stroud Green SNT
  • StroudGreen.SNT
    Further to the above, i am sure the previous comments about damaging cars were made in jest as this would be criminal damage.
    Bob Stevenson, Sgt Stroud Green SNT
  • the northern heights

    Thank you very much to Sgt Bob Stevenson from Stroud Green Safer Neighbourhoods Team Police for taking action here.

    It is good to hear that a driver will get 3 points endorsed on his licence,it's the only thing that arrogant drivers listen to.

    If I might make this suggestion: that the police contact the local newspapers to advertise that they have done what they say they have done;to act as a warning to other drivers who read the papers.

    Thank you to Dion for starting this thread which could do some good. People like Dion flagging up issues like this can make things safer.

    I don't know if the relevant authorities might respond to the point Ian made about traffic light phasing at the junction of Tollington Park and Stroud Green Rd,Ian's comment was made on this thread on 12th March. I don't know who sets phasing for these lights TFL?

  • dion

    @ StroudGreen.SNT

    I did see people in bright yellow jackets this morning and wondered what they were up to!

    I think that telling the local newspapers that the crossing is being monitored is also a great idea.

    Thanks

  • ADGS
    Clearly I'm glad that something is being done about this, and would hope there's a chance of something similar on other crossings (such as the Tollington/SGR crossroads). But...

    What are the penalties for criminal damage? Specifically, how do they compare to the penalties for ignoring crossings (what you said above only mentioned points on the license, which obviously doesn't map to pedestrians - were there fines also)? Because it would seem to me self-evident that an action which can very easily result in death or serious injury, such as ignoring a crossing, should be punished far more heavily than one which will only ever damage paintwork. Is this the case? And would the majority of people committing said criminal damage, like the majority of these drivers, receive only a verbal ticking off?
  • ArkadyArkady

    I can't see the driver complaining in the circumstances. Nor can I see a jury convicting the car-keyer.

    Doff of the hat to Sgt Stevenson though, excellent example of community policing. A

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