Primary School nightmare
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Anyone else trying to get their child into a decent primary school this September? I'd be interested in hearing the experiences of other parents. We live on Upper Tollington Park and we've been allocated Tiverton Primary, deep in Tottenham, for our daughter. What gives? I love this area, but can't stay if that's the best Haringey Council can do. (Hubby is a teacher, so London will be losing a key worker, too!)
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Have you tried Islington Pooles Park is quite close and has a great Garden,Chickens etc
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Thanks Ali. Yes, we did consider, especially as garden etc is really lovely, but at the time came to the conclusion that not so good Ofsted report combined with the high proportion of children with English as an additional language would hold our daughter back (not a middle class comment btw - my hubby taught in a Tottenham school for ten years where many kids arrived not speaking English and his feeling was that it wasn't a great educational environment for those kids that had a good grasp of the language). Still, probably would have been better than the position we're now in!
It's just rubbish that we're given the illusion of choice about where our kids are educated, when in fact it's a private system by another name. Those that can afford the £1m+ homes near Coleridge and St Aidan's etc get in, while the rest of us have to send our kids halfway across the borough to a school that has historically struggled to keep hold of its headteachers and staff :-( Doesn't exactly make you feel empowered. -
I know - it wasn't on our original list (long story), but given that it wasn't oversubscribed, surely that has to be the closest school that still has places (and proximity is the deciding factor, the Council keeps telling us).
However, have now heard of a few people that don't even have an offer of a place, while others got one offer via letter and another via online applications service. All sounds shambolic to me.
If we get a place at SG, dion, I look forward to meeting your lovely son (unless he's tired or hungry, that is!) -
I would, but I don't have another choice. The form I have gives me the option of refusing or rejecting Tiverton and then lists my preferred schools with boxes to tick as to whether I want to be added to waiting list (of course I do!) and whether I want to appeal. There is no option at this stage to add more schools into the mix.
Calls to Haringey Council just seem to confuse the issue, too. I couldn't get a straight answer as to whether, if I declined the place at Tiverton, that would mean they'd not consider us for nearer schools if a place came up. One minute I was told we wouldn't be considered, the next I was told we would. How are we to understand their crazy system if they don't? -
@Vickym. Yes my daughter has been there since nursery. CTK has not been oversubscibed in the past and as it is voluntary aided the fact that it is in Islington is neither here nor there. There are plenty of kids from outside the borough. I work in education - issues of catchment do not apply to voluntary aided schools in the same way as to community schools.
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It has, as most schools have, a reputation which is ten years out of date when it was a failing school and on special measures. However my daughter is now in Year 3 and the current head Paul Campbell has been there for a few years before she arrived and turned it around. Most recent ofsted is outstanding. I think it is also because many people assume that you have to be Catholic to go there and the middle class Catholics fight to get there kids into St GIlda's or St Joseph's in Highgate. It has been a very working class school in the past but that is also changing.
My experience of the school has been very positive and my daughter is mostly happy - she's dyslexic so she struggles, but her best friend is mega-bright and is also doing really well and making really good progress. The school has always been willing to help and to make time to see me quickly when I need to see them.
In terms of applying, I am in the secondary sector, we are currently taking applications from parents who did not get their first choice of secondary school, so I imagine it is probably the same for the primaries. You could give the school a ring and enquire and say Tabitha's mum recommended it! -
Hi,
Regardless of whether you accept the place offered, you should definitely tick the relevant boxes to stay on waiting lists for schools you did choose, as there's a fair bit of movement over the summer, people moving out of London etc.
Not ideal I know as you want to know, but you may rise up the list pretty quick.
When we applied (eldest now in Year 3) we didn't have SG on our list but she was offered there, so we accepted and stayed on the list at St Aidan's (our nearest). She did a year at SG and then got a place just after term started and she had gone into Year 1 so we moved her.
Granted Tottenham isn't a great school run if you have to start there, but it may not be for long.
The other thing to consider is to go out of Borough and try a few schools the other side of Blackstock Road as they don't come under Harringey, and still has to be better than going to Tottenham.
Also worth looking at Ashmount, I know a few who moved there, seem to be doing really well, and there's plans for a new site too.
It is a complete lottery and the choice seems to be something to fill up the form only...
Good luck -
Thank you Siolae and copycara. I will definitely be in contact with CTK. We have applied to Ashmount - the new site is actually where my two currently go to nursery and we really liked the feel of the place when we visited - but we are some distance away from the current site and so I have pretty much discounted it in my head as I think we won't get in. We find out tomorrow.
Good to hear that CTK supports children with learning difficulties - my hubby is dyslexic so there is a chance one of my two will be. It's also heartening to hear of people who have managed to get in to good schools through the waiting list. St Aidan's is our first choice (in part because of their ability to help kids that may struggle with parts of their education).
And yup, I understood that the schools took over the waiting lists, come Sept, but when I rang St Aidan's yesterday, they told me Haringey was taking over the whole system. It's hard to know what to do when you're told so many different things, but it is really helpful to have recommendations from parents who have been through the system. In the meantime, I have my fingers crossed for tomorrow. -
We live on the very corner of Stapleton Hall & Victoria Road.
I've always found it odd though, that even before we moved our eldest to St Aidan's, I always saw parents coming from much further away to take their kids to St Aidan's.
Fundamentally, I think the whole system is screwed. Good luck with Ashmount and whatever you accept, stay on the lists for the ones you want just in case, because in the first couple of years, it's not a big drama to move them. And whichever school the first goes to, the second gets guaranteed entry - hence our moving the first. -
sounds a bloody nightmare. I have all this coming up in just over a years time.
my mum heard two women talking about it in virgin active in crouch yesterday. how this woman's kid had been put down for a tottenham school and not a crouch end one and she was livid.
so i wonder if that was either you or you are not the only one. sounds a complete joke.
good luck, i hope you work something out. Im very interested to see how it goes.
bridget -
Unfortunately @Beek proximity to the school is actually the third criteria for them offering places, I think it goes:
1. Special needs
2. Siblings
3. Rest of the general public
I know when my youngest started St Aidan's (as a sibling) this year, there were 2 places given to special needs (a third upon appeal) and 11 siblings I believe, leaving only 16 places for the wider community, and the furthest child away that was offered a place was something like 0.014 miles from the school, which is pretty much opposite.
There is definitely, and has been for some years, a shortage of places in Haringey. This may be partially eased when the new Ashmount site opens, but probably not.
The other major annoyance is that once places are all offered and parents have accepted to stay on the waiting list - list implying something you can move up - will be bumped down if at any point, a parent who lives closer than them and just decides they want to be on that list even if they hadn't before, or someone who moves into the area - asks to be put on it - they will be pushed above you.
When our eldest started at Stroud Green, we were told she was 3rd on the list for St Aidan's - I rang a month later to be told she was 5th.
The system needs to be overhauled, clearly. -
Thanks for all your comments. @dion - no place at Stroud Green, apparently.
No, we got none of our six choices (applied in Islington and Hackney, too).
@katiejane, we're on Upper Tollington Park, so closer than straight TP, but still not within the 0.18 of a mile we needed to be in.
It all makes me wonder, though. If we take St Aidan's as an example, there were 15 places awarded to siblings, none to children with special needs and 15 to others. Can there really be 15 children of reception age that live within 0.18 of a mile of the school? Or are there people renting addresses on the doorstep?
Anyway, we've turned down Tiverton and are waiting for further news......and in the meantime we're exploring our options of moving out of London altogether. Nice village, close to family and, importantly, a village school that actually takes children from the village. -
Well, spoke to Islington and it seems that Ashmount is v oversubscribed for the first time ever. Our DD is 23rd on the waiting list, so not much hope, but it looks as though we may get a place at Christ the King. I haven't looked around it, but it has to be better than trekking to Tottenham and the Ofsted is outstanding, so perhaps we're not quite in the pickle we were.
Still, system stinks, as far as I'm concerned...Haringey needs to work on increasing places in parts of the borough where there is most pressure, ie, around SG and Crouch End rather than attempting to fill places halfway across the borough. -
@dion - yes, I know that, but it still hasn't sorted out the problems.
If you've got lots of parents being offered places miles away from where they live, there's clearly still an issue of there not being enough places where there is demand and too many places where there isn't.
While that probably changes to a certain degree on an annual basis, I don't think the general trend does. Look at the pressure around schools like Weston Park and Rokesly, too.
Every year parents are led to believe they have a choice about where to educate their children, but in reality, there are very few that do (not just in Haringey, but across the country).
That's why I think the system stinks. Rather than spending time allocating and re-allocating places to people that are unhappy with what they've got, perhaps resources would be better spent on improving the schools that no-one wants to go to and ensuring that there are places in areas where there is most demand (because there are more children there). -
Well, it seems as though waiting lists do shift quite a lot. We've now been offered a place at Stroud Green (a hundred times better than Tiverton on distance alone) and moved up the Ashmount list from 23 to 8....Also no 2 on the CTK waiting list. So maybe we do have a choice after all. Stressful experience all round, though.
I have to say that Islington admissions team are brilliant. You can talk to them whenever you want and they will provide you with info straight away. Haringey won't speak to you and can't provide any info on things like waiting lists. Top marks for Islington, I say! -
Here's a story from one of our local papers which may be of interest to those with pre-school age children in the area and who are worrying about places at local schools. There are comments about this also on Lynne Featherstone's blog - lynnefeatherstone.org
Primary school places in Haringey under threat
9:29am Wednesday 7th July 2010
FEARS are mounting that a £8.57 million budget cut earmarked for expansion of Haringey's primary schools could throw the plans in jeopardy.
As part of the coalition Government's reigning in of public spending, Haringey will no longer receive funding that would have played a major role in plans to create more primary school places.
Many of the borough's schools are at maximum capacity and the population is still growing.
Council leader Claire Kober has now written to education secretary Michael Gove, after two meetings to discuss the removal of funding were cancelled by Department of Education officials at the last minute.
In her letter, Ms Kober wrote: "The decision, and inability to clarify, despite our repeated requests, is a barrier to the council's prudent planning for primary school places in the borough."
She addded: "This is causing a significant amount of anxiety amongst our parents, teachers and governors – as projects we have developed to meet the demand are now at risk."
She closed the letter with a call for an urgent meeting between department and council officials to resolve the situation.
Demand for reception places is projected to rise from 3,059 this year to 3,478 by 2020 - significantly outstripping the 3,131 places expected to be available by 2020 if no further capacity is created. -
Been a long time since I visited this page, but Bridget, I thought I'd let you know the final outcome as you'll be going through all this soon.
We got a place at Christ the King in June, but the school refused to let us visit for longer than five minutes, we were never allowed to meet any of the teachers, it didn't give us a uniform list and didn't even give us a start date. Not very promising. And very hard to prepare a young child for what to expect if you don't know yourself.
A week and a half before term started, we got a call from Islington saying we had a place at Ashmout. Hurrah! Daughter now there and we are all so happy with the school. Lovely environment, very welcoming for children and parents, excellent headteacher, strong parental involvement, good mix of kids, very well organised...I could go on.
This whole process has taught me a number of things:
1. Waiting lists can move a lot. We went from 23 to getting a place (eventually).
2. The most popular schools are not always the best fit for your child. A school like Ashmount is rarely top of people's lists because it's surrounded by others with better reputations/OFSTED reports (hence us moving so much on the waiting list), yet for my daughter, it has proved to be absolutely right on many counts.
3. Reputations are often out of date. Those with the best OFSTED reports/reputations can become complacent. I've spoken to a couple of parents who moved their children from St Aidan's to Ashmount and said that they were far more happy with Ashmount as it was an improving school and there were greater efforts to work with children and get parents involved.
4. Parental support is almost as important as the school's input, so even if your child doesn't get into the school you'd like, you can still make a difference at home (as well as being proactively involved in the school).
5. Educational standards are important, but possibly top of the list is whether your child is happy in their environment. If they're not in an environment that suits them, they won't progress as well as they could.
In all, our situation has worked out better than we could have imagined, particularly as it was a hugely stressful process for us. Good luck to anyone that is going through the process this year and beyond! -
Wow thanks Vicky.
Great news you got into Ashmount. Ive heard great things about it.
I've just started to look in case we move as we are in no mans land for primaries.
I have it all to come. Eeeeeeek.
Bridget x -
Where are you, Bridget? We're miles from Ashmount, but still got a place (and there are places coming up all the time as people move away). Also worth bearing in mind that it will move in 2012 (or that's the plan anyway) and it'll be in SG - top of Crouch Hill.
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My son will start school in summer of next year so need to start getting my head round this whole school thing!
Any update on the contributions above, as well as any other views on local primary schools, would be very welcome. Has anyone applied to Asmount? Still impossible to get in St Aidans?
Thanks in advance! -
My daughter went to Stroud green from nursery to age 8, then we moved her to Ashmount. They are worlds apart, it was the best move we ever did. Ashmount has a really good head teacher and positive attitude and I can't say enough good things about it. They are moving in to brand new premises in Sept, sadly just as my daughter starts secondary.
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wait till you start looking at secondary schools it is ten times worse unless your have daughters
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Ashmount does also get £1500 per pupil more than SG School which must help
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Why does having daughters help?
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Higher value on the open market?
More seriously, having daughters helps because they have a rather better chance of getting into state girls' schools (which are often thought to be better than mixed or boys-only). -
Thanks for the feedback so far people, please keep it coming!
Will definitely take a closer look at Ashmount, the new premises will be nice and local to us too. -
And on St Aidan's they basically apply a sibling rule and then a (very small) catchment area - as the crow flies from the school to your address using some funny (and not publically available) Post Office tool.
Last year 190 applications for 30 places. 16 siblings took first dibs and then the rest went to those who lived within 0.188 miles. (Look here (page 9) for stats for all LBH schools.)
You can do a very rough and ready radius from St Aidan's at 0.18 miles in Google Earth - takes in Cornwall Rd to south, most of Lancaster, bits of Ferme Park Road, some of Mt View and Quernmore, with bits of Oakfield. This is very unscientific of course - and if there were fewer siblings for next year then presumably the distance from the school gate would lengthen - but Upper Tollington wouldn't appear to have been in the catchment last year.
NB presumably you've now applied? The deadline for LBH was 15th Jan 2012.
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- Alex May 2010
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