Book Shop

nancyccampbell

So, I've been talking about starting a bookshop over on twitter as @ratherreadabook and I think some of you have mentioned it on here. I'm keen to do this, but haven't found a good spot yet. Have been having more discussions with others involved and we thought we could kick off with a six-month pop up shop to see if anyone will actually come and buy books. It seems a cheaper way to find out whether it will work or not...<br><p class="MsoNormal"> I'm really struggling with commercial property on Stroud Green Road though - when I chase up stuff online it seems to have already gone. If any of you know anywhere (or indeed own a shop) that would be available for a short lease, that would be brilliant. Also, if you know of anyone who has done a pop up shop in the area, I'd love to find out how they went about it.<br> <br> I think we'd concentrate on contemporary fiction and non-fiction, mainly because classics/modern classics are so easily and cheaply available elsewhere, and I think we need to specialise in something we know about and can advise readers on. Might also think about a kids’ area depending on the size of space and we would also plan to have fairly regular author events (book launches, talks and signings) and deals for locals. What do you think? </p> <p class="MsoNormal">Any advice or ideas are very welcome! </p>

harpistic

Hello there, and I'm glad you've finally posted on here - I'm so sorry to hear you've been having such bad luck with finding properties! What was the deal with the flower shop, by the way? (I'm @clouddancefest over on Twitter).<br>

nancyccampbell

You've been so helpful - thanks! I spoke to one of the guys in the cab office who said the whole place is for sale but the owner is away until end of sep. The estate agent was massively unhelpful but I might try them again. It would be a pretty bold move trying to get that whole property and I don't know if I can encourage the few of us trying to do it to take on such a big risk. It's a brilliant spot though - whatever does go there will have a big impact. <br>

harpistic

Ha, a friend is trying to move to London and she says that (and worse) about estate agents in general!<br><br>I'd thought a larger premises would be good, so that you can offer a more diverse range, and also explore what else the business could offer besides books, if that can help attract more customers. But it's essential to avoid the Stroud Green Law of Competition, which means having as many businesses as possible offering the same thing within a few doors of each other. Which means it'll either be another cafe, estate agent or pizza place (licence permitting). <br>

Mirandola

Where is the cab office?

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

harpistic

Yep, the florist and the cab office next door (by the post office) are jointly for sale; I was looking online for businesses for sale in the area and was surprised to see that come up!<br><br>Here's the listing: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/commercial-property-for-sale/property-41861417.html<br>;

Mirandola

Gosh that's a lot of money. Cute garden though.

harpistic

I agree - maybe due to expected income from the flat? That's such a great spot, though. <br><br>There are a few businesses for sale around Crouch Hill station, but they're smaller and around £30-50k. I can't remember what the DIY shop was going for, the listing for it was still up last week. <br>

Mills

Magic Buskere (opposite the Noble, next to Laura's Nails) is empty and in need of a tenant as the cab firm there was stopped from trading by the council and told it had to be a shop. Don't know the name of the owner, but it may be worth having a quick look to see if there is a number or card in the door. 

ChangN4N6

Go for the flower shop and sublet a cafe doing simple stuff . Good site. Terrible flowers and balloons but nice guy and very good Xmas trees - something you should do as a sideline. Very profitable . Chang

miss annie

There's s bit of discussion about a bookshop here, there was a long discussion on another thread a while ago but I can't be faffed to look for it now. http://www.stroudgreen.org/discussion/comment/62770#Comment_62770

nancyccampbell

<P>Thanks Mills - will check that out. ChangN4N6 I'd really love to take over the flower shop and persuade Vagabond to set up an overspill cafe in the bookshop but it's so expensive. I'll definitely  try and get hold of the owner when he's back though.</P> <P>Looking at some of the other comments - someone mentioned the closed bookshop in Crouch End and wondered whether Stroud Green could succeed if CE didn't. It's a great point and one that's been bothering me, but I can't quite work out why it closed. I heard the woman just retired but someone else said the rent got too high - maybe it was a mixture of the two. It's obviously a risky time to start a bookshop what with Amazon and supermarkets selling so cheaply so I've been looking into common factors among the survivors (for example lots of author events, a cafe, niche subject area, staff who genuinely know their stock and can advise readers, next day delivery of any book not in stock, and children's books are all things that can help...). </P> <P>Someone else mentioned New Beacon Books which is brilliant, but is again very niche (specialists in Black Britain and Europe, the Caribbean, Africa, African America and multi-ethnic children's books), so we obviously wouldn't overlap with those areas but could advise customers to visit them. I think two bookshops with a different focus could be complementary and might be more of a pull for book lovers to come and visit Stroud Green. </P> <P>What do you think? Any other concerns and ideas gratefully received! </P>

JoeV

You may have seen this article already but I think it provides a good general description of how a book shop can succeed in the digital age:<div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/do-bookshops-have-a-future-2240874.html">http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/do-bookshops-have-a-future-2240874.html</a></div><div><br></div><div>Two things stood out to me:</div><div><br></div><div>1: 'Its financial woes are forcing Waterstone's, however tentatively, to return to what made it so popular in the first place: knowledgeable staff, hospitable stores, and a love of literary fiction with popular potential.'</div><div><br></div><div>2. ' . . . Daunt and Topping have the benefit of running bookshops in particularly wealthy areas, giving them a captive audience of book-lovers with plenty of disposable income: Daunt's stores are in Hampstead, Chelsea, Marylebone and Holland Park;'</div><div><br></div><div>If you can get the first sorted, you'll be well on your way. But, as to the second point, I'm not convinced Stroud Green Road and the surrounding area has the demographics you need to support the shop. </div><div><br></div><div>I like Daunt books and I make an effort to buy books there (when I buy, I'm partial to the Haringey libraries at the moment) because they have the types of book that I like curated in a way that I like. There's a reason why they are located in the areas they are and as crazy as property and rental prices are in N4, Finsbury Park isn't  Hampstead, Chelsea, or Marylebone.</div>

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

miss annie

I work for Waterstones. Not shop floor any more (I'm Window Display guru now). Try stopping into Islington, Trafalgar Square,, Piccadilly or any of the recently refitted branches and you'll see an incredible difference in stock and atmosphere. The staff love their new shops and it shows. James Daunt has been MD of Waterstones for a couple of years now and I think his influence can be seen, in the bigger shops in particular. I absolutely agree that there is a place, and a need, for independent bookshops. The best example I know is Mr B's Book Emporium in Bath. What the most successful ones have in common is that they are run by ex chain booksellers (Big Green & Clerkenwell Tales are both ex Waterstones people), lots of events with both big name and niche authors, and that they have thriving mail order business (pain in the bum but necessary). Pickled Pepper children's bookshop in Crouch End is doing well because they do tons of events, they also do courses for adults who want to write kid's books. Location, as you are clearly well aware, is key. I've worked in and around retail (not just books) for the best part of 25 years and I don't think Stroud Green is the right place but hey, if it will sustain a gift shop like Hettie Holland then maybe I'm wrong. I'd say you'd need to stay open til at least 7pm to catch people coming home from work, and obviously open on Sundays. Amazon will be your mortal enemy. Don't even try to compete on price with them or Tesco. Some publishers will give you discount some won't, focus on providing a fantastic atmosphere and exceptional service and you'll build a loyal client base. There's an incredible profit margin on coffee (some Waterstones do it), so if you can, do. But remember how fussy people are about it and do it well. I wish you every success, I look forward to hearing how it goes.

harpistic

My thinking was that it would be essential to explore additional activities, and to try and build a community through the shop, as this will help it to generate business beyond simply selling books. After all, SG is ideally situated for people in Crouch End, Stoke Newington and around, so there's potentially a large catchment area if the activities grab them. The independent bookshops I've enjoyed the most are the ones which promote really good new authors - the ones we wouldn't find out about through Amazon etc; that in itself isn't a sustainable business model, but it's important, reputationwise. Supporting local writers would be important, whether through readings and talks and maybe even limited print runs; I work with a printer who's very cheap but professional standard. Supporting other local artists, eg photographers or other artists by displaying and selling their work. A potential tie-in with Park Theatre, eg talks/readings by writers showing their work at the theatre. Other activities, eg the Book Group, writing clubs and workshops. I can imagine there's support for a new independent bookstore trying to succeed, so even if that may not translate into financial support, it could mean a wider range of potential speakers to help raise the profile of the store. And, as miss annie said, a cafe would be ideal - hence suggesting larger spaces and worrying about cafe overload. If Vagabond would be interested in a franchise, that would be great, and - depending on the licence - it could also mean being able to sell wine and beer for evening events. And for the community building part, do what other businesses in the area tend not to do - involve the local community, get their feedback on what they'd like, even down to speakers and workshops they're interested in, and books they want.

JoeV

@harpistic - I think those are great ideas for a community centre, arts venue or some other type of social gathering place but not a bookstore. <div><br></div><div>There's a danger in diversifying in that by offering so many options, the business now increases its number of competitors from mainly Amazon and Apple to every other cafe and pub in the area, which offer the same services not to mention the Park Theatre, which has it's own cafe to showcase its writers.</div><div><br></div><div>I would want my book store to sell mainly books. To me there's no other point in going there.</div>

andy

Is there any money in small-press publishing?

harpistic

Little or none, I'd say, but it's an area of diversification, and a way to distinguish itself from yet-another-struggling-bookshop, and to get interest from people who would normally buy their books elsewhere. <br>

andy

Thought as much. Though I would love to own a small niche publishing house like Eland. 

harpistic

I think it's reasonable it'd make some profit once it's established... Would be really great to have. <br>

Idoru

The guys at Big Green Bookshop seem to be doing pretty OK and I'd say they're in an area that's a lot less wealthy than Stroud Green (Wood Green). The 'secret' to their success looks to be much of what harpistic has said above. They run a writers' workshop and have regular readings. They have three (I think) book groups every month. They have a knitting group once a month. They're instrumental in the Wood Green Literary Festival. They've even published a couple of books. <br><br>I'd say that it's these kind of activities, becoming a real part of the community, as well as a real love and knowledge of books, is what will keep an independent shop - not just bookshops, but all shops - going. <br>

harpistic

Thanks, @idoru <br>

nancyccampbell

This is all really brilliant and useful. Misscara - I love Persephone Books too and I like your idea of a proper pop up with a stall on the street! <br><br>Thanks for that article JoeV -very  interesting and confirms what I've been thinking. There isn't any point in trying to compete with supermarkets and amazon on price, so you have to think of other reasons why people might come to a bookshop (or indeed buy a book at all now so many of us have e-readers). Miss annie - great to have your advice as someone already in the trade. I love the Waterstones in Piccadilly - it's one of my favourite bookshops. I agree that Daunt has it right (with his idea of 'curating' bookshops) and you can see his influence already. <br><br>I agree that it's a much riskier area to try something like this (compared to the kinds of locations of most Daunts shops for example), but I believe that the good people of Stroud Green have it in them to support it, especially with the kinds of activities that Harptastic suggests. Foyles even offers bibliotherapy sessions: (http://www.foyles.co.uk/Novel-Cure-RFH)! There are some great independents managing in less wealthy parts of London - Big Green Bookshop is a brilliant example, the one in Stoke Newington is hanging in there and you should check out Tales on Moon Lane in Herne Hill if you get the chance (for kids' books). <br><br>Nevertheless it feels like a massive risk, so I'm still trying to find somewhere reasonable to get started & busy doing the sums. If it did happen, would you all please come and buy LOTS of books? <br>

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

harpistic

That would be Barter Books - a friend from nearby recommended it a while ago, I just tweeted him to get the name. It sounds absolutely wonderful - he says he always makes a point of dropping in whenever he's back home. <br><br>http://www.barterbooks.co.uk/html/About Us/The Bookshop.php&lt;br&gt;

miss annie

Foyles nicked that idea from Mr B's. 'Curating' really just means using your commonsense and local knowledge to order the right books for individual shops. This was something that Waterstones staff weren't allowed to do under HMV and still don't do under James Daunt. Regional buyers buy for small clusters of similar shops. Do you know Muswell Hill Children's Bookshop? They are the ones that most regularly win awards and have the likes of Julia Donaldson visiting. Tales on Half Moon Lane were flooded in the Herne Hill flood, they might still be closed. Lion & Unicorn, the lovely kid's bookshop in Richmond has sadly just closed.

Ali

The Alnwick Station place is great. Alnwick itself is worth a visit, great Castle and gardens as well as Hardys fly fishing rod museum

Idoru

Alnwick is stunning. In fact most of the Northumberland coast is absolutely beautiful. <br>

harpistic

Not just the coast - much of the NE is stunning! I collected some of the antifracking photos here: <br>http://storify.com/clouddancefest/desolate-photos<br>;