Wightman Road Closure - Submission to Haringey Council

joannabornat

I'm sure everyone is aware that Wightman Road has been closed for some time and is due to be re-opened in September. You will also be aware that closing the road has led to much discussion as to previous levels of traffic, pollution, safety etc. One result is that 'Living Wightman' a group of local residents, together with LCSP (traffic sub-group) has produced a well researched resident led submission to Haringey in relation to traffic and the Ladder. I'm including a link to the document, 'Fresh Start' here. It's at: http://hgyol.in/2aDYdNv and is certainly worth a read by anyone who has ever tried to negotiate the Wightman Road traffic, as a pedestrian, cyclist or driver. Anything that could help to change that environment has to be of interest to us over in Stroud Green. 'Fresh Start' has been produced as a contribution to the Green Lane Traffic Study and the group producing the document are hoping to persuade the Council to extend the current Wightman closure until the Green Lanes Traffic Study reports back in December. There have been many posts about Wightman Road closure on Harringay online with the latest set of exchanges, following the announcement of 'Fresh Start' at: http://hgyol.in/2aCTGI2

joannabornat

Further information, 'LCSP' stands for Ladder Community Safety Partnership'.

Ali

Interesting document. It could use an Executive Summary at the beginning as it is a lot to read until you get to what you want, actually I am not sure what that is. I think there is more traffic on Ferme Park Road because of the closure.

HolbornFox

There's a lot more traffic on Stroud Green Road because of the traffic on Endymion Road ... oh no there's not actually as they've closed that as well, which is why it is taking half an hour to get from the bottom of Hornsey Road past Manor House... ludicrous emissions being pumped out all over the place 7 days a week.

Luirette

I have read the document and have a great deal of sympathy for a lot of the points they make about parking and traffic. However there is definitely a shadow of Nimbyism here. At present there are very few roads traffic can take and closing Wightman Road just throws the traffic problems over to other areas, causing much a greater problem. The closure has caused traffic tailbacks all the way to Crouch end and Stroud Green. On Upper Tollington Park where I live there is abysmal standing traffic all along the street during rush hour every day. I can't open my front window for the fumes. Thank goodness it's August now and we are enjoying a brief respite as people are away on holiday. While the report sites a survey of Haringey ladder residents being unsurprisingly in favour of keeping Wightman Road closed, I doubt you'd find support if you asked all the other residents in Haringey who the continued closure would affect. It seems to me that this is part of a much bigger problem to do with peoples overuse of cars as a method of transport. Until that is addressed no real progress can be made.

Ali

If they build houses on the Arena shopping park (as planned) would that make it worse as there would be more people or better as there would be less people going to it in there cars? Or why not be radical and have road charging on Whiteman Road and Green Lanes with no discounts for anyone?

trainspotter

Watching with interest. I'm in Stroud Green but quite close to the railway bridge and walk regularly to Green Lanes. I'm in two minds. On the one hand Wightman Road pre-closure was a disgrace - I always took a detour just to avoid walking along it, and the pollution levels are currently putting me off putting my daughter into the nursery at Little Jewels. And the traffic has settled down a tad since the nightmare first couple of weeks. On the other hand traffic along Green Lanes and around Turnpike Lane is still ridiculous. I don't think full closure is really sensible. I'd be keener on less radical traffic calming measures and wider-ranging emissions restrictions (the ULEZ) - perhaps with an electric bus route along Wightman Road. It's a pain getting from my side of the railway to the far end of Green Lanes/Turnpike Lane but if there was a bus or the road was less polluted for cycling/walking rarely use the car for local journeys.

J_R

I follow Ali's comments on it lacking a exec summary and Luirette's on sympathy for situation and impact on other areas. Key is to find win-win or win-0 impact changes. Win for ladder residents and 0 impact/ win for neighboring areas. An good initiative might be that the interconnecting roads in the ladder could have traffic restrictions? Most people on Wightman and Green lanes travel along the whole length? Can't see how that would impact anyone else but maybe I'm missing something? Wightman Rd has been a major route for a long time so to close it would need the support of residents of a much wider area all roads within say a couple of miles or more of the park as the road is a major route for traffic moving around the park. Closing it has impacted Hackney, Islington and Haringey. Residents of all these boroughs suffer with the same issues with traffic passing through the boroughs - and the wightman road closure has shown this. Win-win situations need to be identified. Win-lose seems unfair, and in these situations I think there's a case for maintaining the status quo. Its important to consider some equity between neighboring areas for quality of life and whilst I hesitate to raise it, asset values. An argument for maintaining the status quo comes down to what you sign up for when you purchase a home (quality of life applies to renting). There is usually financial saving for having some traffic which many people will accept. Someone else will pay more to avoid the traffic. All other things being equal it does seem to be a bit harsh to restructure the traffic flow without some thought to the these decisions that are freely made by individuals based on publicly available information - it is evident that Wightman Rd is a major route. Also I'm not sure if the document considered one side effect of closing Wightman Rd might be that rents would go up, therefore pushing many tenants out of their homes.

Arkady

Two posts in a row using 'less' instead of 'fewer'. I'm going to set up a penalty system.

J_R

Is there a league table widget?

trainspotter

The same number of measures of a less radical nature. Not fewer measures of a similarly radical nature. Put your penalty book away.

trainspotter

The asset value point is a logical one, though a bit harsh, as those who bought on Wightman Road may not have predicted it becoming so bad in terms of air quality that it breaches legal limits. And if you read the discussions on Harringay Online (if it's allowed to be a member of both!) then you will see that Wightman Road has suffered as other, once similar, arteries have closed to through traffic without proper borough-wide consideration - cf Hermitage Road. That's why I'm in favour of something other than returning Wightman Road to its pre-closure worst, but am not in favour of maintaining the restrictions in full.

Papa

I had this exact discussion with a chap who asked me to sign their petition as I was cycling down Wightman Road. I explained that Wightman Road was a main road and said that yes it is much more pleasant at the moment, but while it would be nice to close it to through traffic, the residents should consider the knock-on effects for others. For example, Hanley Road, which I live on, is busier since Wightman Road's closure. Should residents here have to suffer more cars, my children have to suffer more risk etc, because someone else doesn't want to? The same goes for Ferme Park Road, Tollington and Upper Tollington Park etc. A similar case arose a couple of years back, when there was a council plan (fortunately abandoned) led by some of the residents on the already quiet Corbyn and Thorpedale roads to stop through traffic, which would have then imposed more traffic on their neighbours - including their own cars.

trainspotter

If you read through their comments at the bottom of their document it looks as if almost everyone from outside the immediate vicinity is against maintaining the closure. I am too, as some of the knock on effects are ridiculous (I once got stuck in Willoughby Road for close to an hour, when there was a gridlock where neither direction of traffic could move, but I do think it is a shame we are so averse to abandoning the premise that the car reigns over all our public realm. So many streets are just wastelands, really. Even Finsbury Park itself has a road through it, with cars having supremacy over children playing and dogs exercising etc.

Arkady

The evidence suggests that driverless cars will cause an enormous decrease in the number of vehicles on the road, particularly parked vehicles. This should encourage the move towards wider pavements and/or shared surfaces where the pedestrian has priority.

trainspotter

Really? That'd be great but what's the logic behind it?

Arkady

Worth having a google. It's being talked about more and more. Most cars spend most of their time parked. Automated cars could instead be rented out to car schemes so at times that you don't need them they are earning money for you. That, coupled with the fact that Uber-like taxi services will be vastly cheaper without drivers, will quickly make taxi-like services more desirable than owning a car, hastening the decline in ownership. So fewer cars on the road overall, and fewer of those parked up taking space. Which means more room for broader Victorian-style pavements, or pavements being scrapped in favour of pedestrian-priority 'shared surfaces' as is becoming increasingly popular, especially in Europe (also trialled near the Royal Albert Hall). Given the cultural change already leading to the decline of urban car ownership and increase in car-sharing schemes this seems really quite likely to me. Trickier in the provinces though.

NorthNineteen

I agree with what Arkady says but I'd suggest it's a theory rather than evidence.

Arkady

Fair. Lazy terminology on my part.

Papa

Electric cars will make a huge difference to air and noise quality in the city. Although the electric driverless car revolution isn't going to be taking off unless someone puts some more charging points in. I had a Tesla for a short while recently - was wonderful but the nearest electric car charging points where I could have left it to charge up while at home are at the Whittington and Highbury Fields - ie a bus ride away. Wouldn't really be practical for ownership, as I can't take an extension lead out and over the pavement each night. For now, they make more sense for those out-of-town or in the suburbs, or the rare house or flat owner with a drive in inner London. That's why you see many more electric cars outside the homes of wealthy inner London homeowners with a drive they can get a charging point fitted at.

trainspotter

Yes, I want to swap my horrible diesel car (bought with emissions in mind but before all the lastest info came to light) for something greener, but I don't think it's practical to switch to an electric car just yet, and hybrids are still very expensive.

J_R

Agree the future is looking good for car emissions in cities. Electric cars and trucks (TK Max/ UPS) are driving around the city now. The Major is well over due putting restrictions on non electric commercial travel. I would have thought commercial vehicles could plug in at the place they are delivering to? Wouldn't it be sensible for the Major to say, put large congestion charges on non-electric commercial vehicles from say 2021. I think black cabs are being forced to switch. 2021 gives everyone a chance to move as most commercial vehicles are leased or have a 5 year life etc. The increased costs would be passed onto us Londoners but we'd probably be willing to pay them - a decent study could work out what the cost would be. Plus there would be massive savings from the health benefits (and decrease in greenhouse emissions if charged from renewables/ nuclear...).

trainspotter

I'd be up for ditching car ownership in favour of a shared electric car scheme if it was run on slightly more competitive terms than zipcar. At the moment I feel that zipcar is geared towards short journeys - competing with taxis, really but I'd normally get the bus or walk for these journeys. The costs mount up if you want to borrow a car for a day/weekend. I also have small kids and the thought of lugging 2 car seats to the nearest available zipcar does not fill me with joy, but if they were already fitted I'd be there!