Wireless

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  • @LukeG I suppose the issue is, it was out of balance. The council needs money but the balance of the necessity of it, vs. the local use of land designed for people who don't have access to gardens seemed out of kilter.

    In reality, the parks main use is in the summer - when people need full access to it most - so for it to be degraded in that period, is at least, unfair.

    To carry on the logic, which may or may not be fair, if we prioritised cash over its fundamental reason for existence, why not just have festivals every weekend? Stack up the cash so it can be redeveloped over winter. Obviously, that's hyperbole, but it highlights the core issue, which is, local people in Haringey need access to green spaces as a priority.
  • Agree the wireless gendre of the music was not to my taste but I am not young. The Rolling Stones were looked upon as a bit outrageous by older folks in the day. It must cost to put it on in the first place. Being cancelled must ha cost the council 500k or so of lost revenue to spend on parks. That doesn't get replaced. Hands up for a rates increase
  • The rates are already going up by 5% and cumulatively with the other London and Housing Authority costs I have to pay my family is facing a tax bill up by 16%.

    So, although it would be great to avoid disruption for sure I'd prefer not to be down to a few quid on our account every month.
  • Here's a crazy idea! Central government raises taxes on corporates and the wealthy, and increases local government grants to something near pre-austerity levels so that we don't have to choose between having a proper well-maintained park or awful, intrusive concerts.
  • @therattle , to start with, we'd need a national campaign promoting media literacy for a few years. Now, I wonder why the current stripe of HM Gov. wouldn't want that?
  • edited April 2021
    Corp tax is already up and I don't know where you think the extra money is going to come from given the billions we're spending at the moment.

    Anyway, people around these ends seem to be able to afford it, so why not, more taxes is fine, let's just nimby until those who can't afford it move out of the area.
  • The money should be coming from central government, not local taxes. Corporation tax is up, is it? And how long is that particular piece of string?

    No doubt public expenditure is a tad over what the Conservatives would like, but then it always is. Where is a lot of that money going, hmmm? I haven't heard of any billionaires losing their shirt in the current "crisis". It is, after all, a humanitarian crisis first and foremost, not a financial one.
  • @LukeG I think that's the story of London for the past forty years - people being forced out due to increased prices. But blaming locals (nimby-ism) for not wanting the local park destroyed isn't the cause of it. It's tax sheltering, offshore accounting, and London being used as a savings account for illegal money from all over the world. The national government can create policy that curtails those elements, but, it would create a depression in house prices which is the backbone to our economy. Essentially we're paying the price for a lack in morality, dating back to Thatcher.

    Not as a broadside to you but I feel that it serves the powers that be for us to blame each other - arguing over concerts in a park when the real question is, how did we end up in a place where the third most expensive city in the world per square foot is in a position that this is even an argument for local politics. If the answer we've come to is that we destroy local amenities for profit or as you say, vast swathes of people are forced out of the city, then potentially, we're asking the wrong question. Which to my point, is beneficial for vast swathes of very rich, tax dodging people, who live in the same city as us.
  • what @cmo said. spot on. also @Scruffy's remark about media literacy.

    a handful of bullionaires run the newspapers which then set the agenda for the main broadcast media, and it frames everything in terms of limited resources and blaming each other.

    meanwhile the UK owns most of the tax havens in the world, and the city is an unregulated cesspit of greed. oh, and then while this is all going on, the world is burning and your kids and grandkids face military rule and rations as the world's grain can no longer be grown and a billion climate refugees are looking for a new home.

    our defunct democracy will never change any of this and humanity is on a fast course to oblivion unless people start waking up, thinking of future generations, and working every day towards a non-violent revolution of the way we're governed.

    there's more of us than them, and principles of direct democracy such as citizens' assemblies have been proven to not just work, but provide the means to massive consensual changes in society.

    there IS a giant money tree, but it's on a small island in the bahamas or caymans and needs to be replanted nearer to home.
  • LukeG, I am not sure that I understand your point. Corporation tax is historically low. Even during the Thatcherite 80s the lowest it went was 35%, compared to 19% now. And it is paid on *profits*, not revenues. That's where the extra money is going to come from. That, and taxing the wealthy (who have become wealthier during the pandemic). Higher rates of tax on higher earners has very little effect on their economic activity (the whole "we must incentivise wealth creators with lower tax rates" is simply not true).

    I don't see how either higher corporation tax or higher taxes on high earners would nimby anything around here. If anything revenues from those taxes used to strengthen local government would make it easier for lower-earners to stay and thrive, and reduce inequality.
  • edited April 2021
    The new flats at Finsbury Park are a very simple analogy for what is going wrong on so many levels and in so many industries.

    Money is required to rebuild the station so a property company offer to pay for it if they can put flats there.

    Then the funding for all stations is permanently pulled, meaning flats have to be built at every station as there is no money in the budget and certainly no magic money tree.

    The carnage, loss of amenities and sudden reduction of public housing is seen as unavoidable.

    Crossrail has been so ruinous for so many small and independent businesses for this very reason and yet it's still costing us millions (or billions probably).

    I see Lloyds Bank are getting in on buying property now which will squeeze things ever further.
  • When Thatcher got elected corporation tax was 52% so she was responsible for a very big cut. In the 1970s, the highest rate of income tax on earned income was 83 per cent. Margaret Thatcher's government reduced it to 60 per cent in 1980 and 40 per cent in 1989.

    So I think you can argue that snatcher Thatcher did cut taxes. I guess the question is what was the impact of that?

    But she did also borrow money as in 1979 National Debt % of GDP was at 40% at the end of her reign it was 54%. The norm for not being excessive is 60%. Last year it was 84.5%. in Jan this year it was 97.9 % and forcast in 2022 to be 109%.

    The question here is does this really matter? Right leaning Politician's go about the place presenting this in the terms it is like a houshold budget (it is not) and there is no Magic Money tree but there obviously is a magic money tree as the Government seems to have found it. All this household budget is guff and is to lay the ground to "national sacrifice" and more austerity.

    None of the above takes into account the Brexit impact which has not yet started on the inbound side Britsh border but has been delayed until October.
  • If you want to see some brexit impact just take a drive on the misery that is the M20 junction 8-9.
  • edited April 2021
    "Money is required to rebuild the station so a property company offer to pay for it if they can put flats there."

    For the record, with Finsbury Park I don't think that's the nature of that relationship at all. The City North development was built on private land. The tunnel that carried the station entrance to Wells Terrace was part of that private land, rented by TfL/Network Rail. When the City North development first went in to planning (2009) they agreed to keep the station tunnel, and make passive provision for a new station entrance should TfL/Network Rail ever stump up the cash to do the necessary tunnel work on their own property to create the new and improved link. In the end the latter DID stump up the cash before the development began, so the planning application was amended (2011) to scrap the tunnel and provide a new entrance instead - the developer benefits because they were able to have a larger basement where the tunnel was (hence the cinema) and possibly (I don't know this) rent on the station's new entrance.

    On the other hand passive provision for housing above stations goes back a LONG way. As an example, all the Leslie Green Piccadilly line stations were designed for it.

    Some never utilised the space: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_Green#/media/File:Russell_Square_station.jpg

    Others did: https://assets.londonist.com/uploads/2019/07/i875/img-1217.jpg

    This doesn't speak to the wider issue of property prices in London and how to remedy it. The report put out last year by the dreadfully-named 'Building Better Building Beautiful Commission' answers a lot of those questions in my view. With good neighbourhood planning and zoning laws much of London's cruddy metroland could be transformed into the gentle density of proper mature cities, adding enormous volumes of quality new housing.

    (you may need to scroll down to the relevant tweet)
  • edited April 2021
    Yes (and I do not disagree with what you say) but we would have not got a new entrance without City North, and are still beholden to them closing the SG side entrance for x number of years because they hold the purse strings.

    I don't actually suffer from nimbyism so don't mind things being built or even young people daring to make noise, it's the total lack of consideration for existing people and businesses that drives me mad.
  • Looks like funfair going up in Finsbury park!
  • How far away from the park can you hear wireless? I’m moving to Dagmar road?
  • You will need to start nailing your plates down.
  • Oh really haha ???? thanks for the reply.
  • Nothing this year, and given the resistance from the neighbours, likely it will stay down south next year.
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