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General chat: Tipping: r_c was right

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  1.  
    • CommentAuthorandy
    • CommentTimeJul 15th 2008
     

    following the discussion in this thread about tipping: http://www.stroudgreen.org/discussion/166/

    the independent has clearly been reading sgr.org and decided to start a campaign about it: http://www.stroudgreen.org/discussion/166/

    Carluccio's, Café Rouge, Chez Gerard, Strada and Café Uno all pay their staff less than the minimum wage and use customers' tips to make up the balance in their employees' pay;

    PizzaExpress takes an 8 per cent cut of tips left on a credit card;

    One chain of Asian restaurants, Georgetown, takes 100 per cent of tips;

    Staff at one London eatery receive no basic wage at all.

  2.  
    Link to the Independent article
    • CommentAuthordion
    • CommentTimeJul 15th 2008
     
  4.  
    @ geoff - i love how both of the names in that example are spanish.
    • CommentAuthordion
    • CommentTimeJul 16th 2008
     

    @ RC - Si, pero claro que hay muchos camareros y camareras latinas y espanoles en londres. El salario minimo en Londres vale mucho mas que lo parecido en cualquier pais latino.

    Miguel es ladron!

    • CommentAuthorjandb
    • CommentTimeJul 16th 2008
     

    erm ..... muy bien.

    • CommentAuthortosscat
    • CommentTimeJul 16th 2008
     

    Mondongo!

  8.  
    service charges and tips left on credit cards are actually the legal property of the company, and not the server. and while i hate the idea of it, as long as the staff get minimum wage, the company isn't technically breaking the law. the point is, it's shitty to have people work hard for something in the region of £2 an hour, and to have the customers believe the service charges or any tip they may - god forbid - actually leave on top, rewards the hard work of the server.

    the independent campaign is a moral issue - one i agree with - but not a legal one.
    • CommentAuthorandy
    • CommentTimeJul 16th 2008
     

    the independent campaign is a moral issue - one i agree with - but not a legal one

    That's why it's in the independent. Slightly worthy guilt-inducing middle class crusades are what it's all about.

  10.  
    making sure that the person who serves your meal makes enough money to buy food themselves is a 'slightly worthy' issue?

    ok, it's not curing cancer. but since most of us can't do anything about cancer and can do something about this, i would consider it a very worthy issue.

    did i mention that i used to work on the living wage campaign?

    you should tip hotel maids, too. they make less than the minimum wage.
    • CommentAuthorandy
    • CommentTimeJul 16th 2008
     

    My point was about the Independent, rather than the issue.

    The Independent seems to specialise in campaigns that are impossible to parse beyond "we're all doomed, we're all evil and it's all our fault". The objective seems to be to induce a helpless self-loathing in its readership rather than actually get anything done.

    I reckon the Mirror's version the campaign is better: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2008/07/16/mirror-s-fair-tips-campaign-for-restaurant-workers-set-to-win-historic-victory-89520-20645242/

    The tone is totally different.

    Curing cancer isn't all that, either.

    • CommentAuthorColette
    • CommentTimeJul 16th 2008
     
    I hate the indy - it's rubbish.
  13.  
    What's wrong with a bit of helpless self-loathing?
  14.  
    Oh, I totally agree about the Independent. But then I hate the Guardian most of the time, too. And the Times. The rest, I'm just too embarrassed to even think about buying. In my more pretentious days, I used to read the FT. By 'read' I mean skim the headlines. The body text is much too dull.

    Did anyone actually see yesterday's Indy? I wonder if the tipping thing was on the front page. They have a habit of leading with a feature. Why? Is there no actual news?
    • CommentAuthorPete
    • CommentTimeJul 16th 2008
     
    What do I do if I want to tip the chef for making glorious food, rather than the person who brings it across the room?
  16.  
    @ Pete - In a lot of places, the waiting staff do share the tips with chefs, bartenders, hosts, etc. But in general, a chef is not a tipped employee because he earns a proper salary. A waiter's salary reflects the expectation of tips.

    If you're happy with the meal, you should definitely at least say something. The chefs I know take a lot of pride in their work and often feel like the customers are plebs who can't appreciate their efforts. Usually when customers complain about the food it's because they don't understand what they've ordered. This makes chefs angry. They throw things. So it would be nice for them to hear that someone thought the food was gorgeous.

    Oh, and if you think that a waiter's job is bringing things across the room, then you've never waited tables.
    • CommentAuthortosscat
    • CommentTimeJul 17th 2008
     

    You do contradict yourself sometimes RC.

    • CommentAuthortosscat
    • CommentTimeJul 17th 2008
     

    Or am I just stupid?

    • CommentAuthorPete
    • CommentTimeJul 17th 2008 edited
     
    Oh, and if you think that a waiter's job is bringing things across the room, then you've never waited tables

    I like to think that was self evident.

    But, I think the greater point is made, chefs don't get tip because they get a "proper wage". So it's not about "fair tips for waiting staff", it should be about fair wages for waiting staff.

    Didn't people unionise over stuff like this?
  20.  
    @ tosscat - Contradict myself? Probably. But what are you referring to specifically?

    Good waiters do a difficult job well. They are not unskilled workers. Many restaurants have mandatory weekly/monthly training sessions in subjects like wine, fish, service, etc.

    Good waiters deserve to make a decent living. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Decades of convention dictate that tips make up a large proportion on that wage. Whether or not that's a good thing depends on how you view tipping in general. Many see it as insulting to the workers. Others see it as a valid incentive, similar to working on commission. Either way, you will not change convention by not tipping. All you will do is screw over the waiter.

    If good waiters don't earn a decent living, they will go and do something else. Then the next time you go to a restaurant, your order will be taken by someone who can barely pronounce the name of the wine, much less recommend the right one. And don't even think about asking where the meat comes from. You'll be lucky if he knows know what sort of meat it is.

    @ Pete - The wages vs tips argument is an age-old one. I don't know where the tipping convention came from, but there are plenty of countries, like Japan, where it doesn't exist. Maybe it would be better if the restaurants just paid a decent wage, but your meal would cost around 25% more (party because of VAT issues).

    Some waiters are in a union, but not enough. Union membership fees start at around £120 a year, which for many people is a good chunk of change.

    London Citizens has a workers association, which isn't as effective as a union, but only costs £10 to join. You'd be amazed how many people think that £10 is a lot of money.
  21.  
    on the BBC today show:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_7513000/7513429.stm

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