Should Samuel open a deli?

edited July 2008 in Local discussion
Well, should he? I've added a poll mainly so we take the discussion out of the 'new members' thread. And in the spirit of creeping commercialism, Sam will have to pay for if he wants to see the results.
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Comments

  • edited 5:43AM
    i want flat white please. Thanks. Please open soon.
  • edited 5:43AM
    I just voted for " yes - but like somewhere else . The italian job in crouch end is owned by an italian man who use to own the one in Fin park that has just changed hands . I have a great pastry Chef on board so i think it would need to be very good coffee ( like i made in Nz ) and great pastries ....also fine cheeses and Fine meats . I also though a few " meal of the " day dishes for those of us who are working .
    There is a credit crunch ...so am thinking hard about it . Its also a matter of the right space !!
  • edited 5:43AM
    Morning to everyone this morning. I have never been to Flat White for some reason, although I've been past it loads. It looks like the last place I'd go to pick up, say, 200g provolone piccante. Can one of the antipodean barrista afficionadi correct me if I'm wrong please? I would love a proper deli, not just somewhere that sells glorified ready meals on a counter. Can it sell bread as well and no pre packed sandwiches? Can you ask for a roll to be filled from the range of cheeses and meats and pay for them by weight and perhaps ask for a spoonfull of the delicious home-made pesto to be spread on the roll too?
  • benben
    edited 5:43AM
    Set it up on Blackstock Road and I reckon you'll make a killing.
  • AliAli
    edited 5:43AM
    The future could be Blackstock Road once all the people move into the old Arsenal Stadium although where will the footfall be, between the new flats and Arsenal Tube, Drayton Park Station of Finsbury Park Tube Railway etc.

    Best location on SGR is a difficult one. If you want to get some ideas Lygon Street in Melbourne is a fantastic place for this sort of thing.

    Have a look at http://www.kingandgodfree.com.au/ or http://www.lygonst.com/

    Be brave and locate between La Porcheta and PPs offering fantastic coffee, ice creams etc and get some of the before and after trade from the restaurants as well as the daily walk
  • edited 5:43AM
    I would dearly love somewhere to buy good bread.
  • edited 5:43AM
    Is there really a credit crunch? I'm yet to notice it working for myself. I'm happy to come to your new place for lunch once a week or so. I'm also looking to move into my own office space, soon.
  • edited 5:43AM
    Flat White is all about coffee, with counter food and snacks as an aside. It's definitely not a deli.

    Colllettte is right - good bread is what we need round here.
  • edited 5:43AM
    @ collette & dominic - tesco do a storming sourdough and a blinding buckwheat boule.
  • edited 5:43AM
    Credit crunch or not, there are lots of people around SG who will pay extra for top quality coffee and food. I certainly do.

    I don't think that it would work on Blackstock Road. I know that people think that it will go the way of SGR following the opening of the new stadium, but it'll take time. There are plenty of areas around London where property prices have risen dramatically, but the area is still scummy. You're not going to replace all of the current businesses that have Algerian men standing around outside just like that. It took ages for Good For Food to get as busy as it is now. I remember when it was only open M-F, until 5pm.

    Does anyone here ever go into any of the other places on Blackstock Rd? I've been to Sim Sim a few times when GFF shut before I had finished my work. It can get a bit uncomfortable when the regulars sit around staring at you.

    I've also been to Fish & Cook and the Islington library. The library sucks. They have all of the latest best sellers with the shiny covers and very little else.
  • edited 5:43AM
    Ok well those are all very valid points . I have to say that good bread is a must , thats often whats brings us into a deli . I do think its important to have a sandwich with the filling of your choice ... and some provalone Piccante is a good start .
    I have wondered about blackstock rd ....but the front room does so well around here , isnt there room for more . I do like the front room ..very friendly !
  • edited 5:43AM
    @ samuel - You will get a very different kind of passing trade on SGR than on Blackstock Rd.
  • benben
    edited 5:43AM
    Not sure about that - although I am biased, because I live nearer Blackstock Rd than SGR. I think a lot of people would come out of the woodwork if you opened a decent deli. Sim Sim does really nice sandwiches/wraps and other meals (better than Good for Food, in my view), but it doesn't have the right kind of feel to differentiate itself from the other cafes on the street. Coffee Cake looked promising initially, and the cakes were terrific, but the sandwiches were bland and there was no atmosphere. I expect SGR is lower risk, but someone will clear up when they get it right on Blackstock.... or when they turn that pub, the Kings Head, into a decent place to eat and drink. The roads on both sides of Blackstock are teeming with disposable income.

    I agree though, it will take a bit of time.
  • edited 5:43AM
    I am confused. Does deli mean cafe? I anticiapate a deli to have a load of funny pots with various glazed pates, cold cuts, cheese...
  • edited 5:43AM
    I do mean a deli / cafe ..... a good deli should have a great cheese selection , a good cold cooked meat selection , Parma ham , smoked turkey etc ...and also Pate s , olives , pesto etc . However you cant make a living selling just these items as the margins are quite low .On coffee , pastries, muffins ....actually anything you make yourself the margins are alot higher and those items tend to sustain the business. The deli/ cafe combination makes for a great food atmosphere ...
  • edited 5:43AM
    It looks like there may be a new vacant property at the top end of SGR. Black Sea Grill BBQ (formerly Woody's Grill) was closed last night with a bailiff's letter taped to the inside of the window saying the tenancy had been determined.
  • edited 5:43AM
    Black Sea Grill would be a good location but is quite small. Dream River was up for sale, good location and a bit more space.

    Amici in East Finchley is a good example of a combi deli/café. Lots of fresh produce, ciabbatas, sandwiches to order, good coffee and always an enthusiastic welcome.

    Anywhere could serve better coffee than the "Italian" deli on SGR, absolutely undrinkable and not a great atmosphere ( my wife describes it as the place that the WLOM regulars go to sober up )
  • edited 5:43AM
    I didn't realise that the WLOM regulars ever sobered up.
  • edited 5:43AM
    Pleeeeease open up a deli with good cheese, good bread and good ham. I promise I would visit regularly. Forget about olives though, you'll never compete with Woody's. I have to say that I suspect SGR is a safer bet than Blackstock, especially if you stick with the top part (ie, closer to Crouch end). I'm not sure that the Arsenal development will make that much difference - people living there are far more likely to use arsenal tube station, and thus never walk past.
    @Rainbow carnage - you're very wrong about the N4 library. It may not have as wide a selection as you want on site, but browse the Islington library online catalogue, and they have masses. And will send whatever your reserve online to the N4 library for free.
  • edited 5:43AM
    Ok I know I've put too much thought into this but here it goes:

    I think it would be terrific to see a decent café or deli open in SG but it seems to me that such a business should be either a café, concentrating on selling food and drink to people eating in or a deli that caters to selling food to people who take it out to eat or prepare at home, not both.

    These deli-café combinations seem to be everywhere and they rarely seem to work because the focus seems to be off. Unless it’s done well, one side of the business always suffers and it’s usually the deli side and then you end up with forlorn shops selling a some cups of coffee or tea and the occasional muffin and panini.

    I buy my cheeses, meats, olives , pesto etc. from shops that specialise in those items, such as Lina Stores, Camisa, Gazzano, Brindisa, German Deli, etc.

    I don’t buy them at the fancy Italian in Crouch End because that place to me is a restaurant. It looks like a successful deli/café but I wonder how much product they actually sell to people who take out. The items on the shelves appear to me to be more for decoration than anything else. But they are busy with people eating in so they must be doing something right in that area (enough to compensate)

    I think that it would be wise to establish a shop as cafe or a deli, be the best, and then as a way to expand the business in the future, branch out into the other area.

    Sam good luck to you whatever you decide and if you do open shop I'll be there everyday if you sell some good loaves of bread.
  • edited 5:43AM
    Thanks for even giving it your consideration , and i do understand when you say that you either want a deli or a cafe not the combination . I had both a deli and a cafe seperatly in nz . They both worked but i have a passion for both and i think i can pull it off ....it just may take time . All your comments were very valuable to me .
  • edited 5:43AM
    @Samuel -- just my two pence for what it's worth since I have no experience in this area. It's just something I observed in that there are so many cafe/deli type places that are so so at best.

    There are several good delis that I use and am not sure if I would have room for another unless it was expectional, but a very good cafe, a real cafe, that concentrated on pastry/bread, eat in or take away, now that would be something.
  • edited 5:43AM
    I'd like somewhere where you can get a good Eggs Benedict
  • edited 5:43AM
    <i>I'd like somewhere where you can get a good Eggs Benedict</i>

    You should try the Italian deli in Crouch End. The best Eggs Benedict I've had outside of the States. Good chips and coffee, too.
  • edited 5:43AM
    @ Colette - I've been to the library lots of times over the last few years. The staff are ignorant and rude. It takes several weeks to get something sent over from another branch, even after I had checked online that it's available. Half of the time they lose the request completely.

    The last time we were there, I had a bit of a spazz. This is the only library I've ever been to that does not have a drop box to return books. I stood in a queue for ages while the woman at the counter repeated the same information over and over to the idiot who was ahead of me. The other staff just stood around chatting. Eventually I interrupted her (perhaps not as nicely as I should have) and asked if I could just hand her the book. She looked at me that I has smacked her across the face with it.

    If a bookshop had service like this, it would go out of business in a month.

    @ samuel - Have you been to Good for Food? They are sort of a deli and cafe at the same time. They sell cheese and some sort of ham products. The coffee could be better, and it could be open later, but other than that, it's fab.

    I don't supposed you could ban screaming children from your establishment, could you? Or, more specifically, the parents of said children, who think it's cute that junior hasn't shut up in 30 minutes.
  • edited 5:43AM
    @Rainbow carnage - your description really doesn't match my experience. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. And by the way, it's not a bookshop, it's a public service. There's a difference.
  • edited 5:43AM
    'Public service' just means that it's funded through taxation rather than individuals paying for specific goods. You're still paying for it. I get equally annoyed when the recycling isn't picked up.

    The library does charge for DVD and CD rentals. It's not a lot of money, but enough so that they could afford a drop box.
  • edited 5:43AM
    @ samuel - vis a vis screaming kids. Trust you'll do proper fluffies (for no more than 50p). With marshmallows. None of this babyccino crap. BTW - where in NZ did you have a cafe? I reckon Te Kuiti, but my partner thinks Thames....
  • edited 5:43AM
    I like screaming kids. They enable me to reconnect with the real world that is outside frappucinos, Flat White, blah, blah, blah. One day, Rainbow Carnage, unless you are too old - possible - you will have screaming kids, and because they are <i>your</i> screaming kids, you will love 'em.
  • edited 5:43AM
    @ krappyrubsnif- I don't think I've ever had a frappuccino. I drink coffee. Black. Occasionally, when the quality of the coffee doesn't meet my standards, I have it white.

    And the reason why I hate screaming children is that I like to sit in a cafe and do my work. I don't think that's unreasonable. I don't get in your personal space. What makes you think that I want your brats in mine?

    Not all children are screamers. Part of it is the little darlings' own personalities, but mostly it's the parenting. If I couldn't keep my spawn quiet in a cafe, I would not go to one. The same goes for theatre and the cinema. Take them to the park instead.
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