Raising kids outside London

[Deleted User] · March 2014

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ChangN4N6 · March 2014

What's wrong with Colingdale? Chang

Siolae · March 2014

We moved out of Stroud green after 20 years, partly because we could never afford to buy in the area unless we won the lottery. By that point my daughter was 10 and I would have been perfectly happy for her to go to a local school, as I work in education and know the local schools well. London schools are great. But what was more pertinent to me were concerns about local gang culture. Schools largely manage to keep this outside their gates, however the impact on local teenagers is profound and almost unavoidable. Having dealt on a daily basis with the sharp end of this locally for 10 years, I made the decision that I would not be able to keep her safe and let her have the normal freedoms of a teenager.

ChangN4N6 · March 2014

Seriously I am amazed that gangs are an issue round here . Sad , but I've not seen any of that type if thing. Maybe I don't see it. Chang

[Deleted User] · March 2014

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Sutent · March 2014

@misscara. The gang members are people like me and you misscara. Except society has failed them

Brodiej · March 2014

@Sutent. No. You can have a difficult life, but it is ALWAYS your decision to turn to crime. Society does not fail you in that way, as there is always an alternative route. Individuals must take responsibility for their actions, blame is an easy option.

Sutent · March 2014

@Brodiej I think we have to differ on this matter

Brodiej · March 2014

@Sutent. If you include parents within "society" i might be able to understand that view, otherwise yes, defo have to agree to disagree. It would be interesting to see your reaction/viewpoint if you were a victim of gang related crime.

Toddlesocks · March 2014

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">@Siolae totally understand.</font><div style="font-size: medium;"><font size="2"><br></font></div><div style="font-size: medium;"><font size="2">My son is soon to be 27 yrs , it was too stressful for words when he was a teen in London, nothing I would want to go through gain. As was pointed out, it really has nothing to do with school, it is out of school you really need to worry. In all areas!</font></div><div style="font-size: medium;"><font size="2"><br></font></div><div style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium;"><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">I don't know how it is now, but when he was 13 yrs old he was pretty much left alone, trouble happening between gang members. By the time he was 15 /16 yrs old this was no longer respected . Those not in gangs get pressure from both sides, seen as outsiders. Eventually by his late teens gang culture seemed to be rife, did not matter whether they were a gang member or not, all about post code and seemed to have extended to young men into twenty's. Worryingly it seems to be only the very high profile incidents that get reported, seems to be something you do not fully appreciate unless have a teen, or work with young people (certainly was true of when my son was one, i was extremely shocked , and like to think i am pretty socially aware). </font></div><div style="font-size: medium;"><font size="2"><br></font></div><div style="font-size: medium;"><font size="2"> By his late teens feeling very frustrated by it all, he once commented to me it might have been safer and less hassle if he was in a gang , though thankfully he was an avid sports player which helped keep him very busy and focused outside of school/ study's. </font></div><div style="font-size: medium;"><font size="2"><br></font></div><div style="font-size: medium;"><font size="2"> He was mugged 6 times between the ages of 13 and 17 three at knifepoint (and does not look like a 'victim' being sporty and muscular , mature and sensible) , twice when out with a friends ( other non gang members). The worst was when he got mugged on a busy tube when 17 yrs old, after getting on at FP. A group of other teens surrounded him and held him till Holburn. I was upset and astounded no members of the public intervened. He pointed out to me, as he was surrounded with a knife discreetly held to his ribs , pretty much co operating ( as he had been advised to do in such circumstances) people maybe thought he was with them, any who realized obviously decided to keep out of it for their own safety , sad as it is. They let him go at Holborn where he reported it himself hoping it was on CCTV. ( BTP were great calling me and bringing him back to FP station).</font></div><div style="font-size: medium;"><font size="2"><br></font></div><div style="font-size: medium;"><font size="2">It opened my eyes to how vulnerable in particular teens are in even the most public of places in the middle of this city. </font></div><div style="font-size: medium;"><font size="2"><br></font></div><div style="font-size: medium;"><font size="2">It was a major relief that he decided to go to University in Birmingham, feeling getting away from London and experiencing another city would be good . After graduating he decided to stay. He has a lovely flat in Birmingham city center that he said he could not afford the same standard here .</font></div><div style="font-size: medium;"><font size="2"><br></font></div><div style="font-size: medium;"><font size="2">I was dreading going through it all again with my stepson who is 10 yrs younger so was very relieved when his mum decided to move to a small town in Suffolk, though it meant us seeing him a lot less.</font></div><div style="font-size: medium;"><font size="2"><br></font></div><div style="font-size: medium;"><font size="2">It is very difficult giving kids freedom to grow into independent young adults without being helicopter parents always hovering round/ escorting them about . I don't envy today's young parents in London. Then again guess every generation everywhere may have said that.</font></div><div style="font-size: 10pt;"><br></div><div style="font-size: 10pt;"><br></div><div style="font-size: 10pt;"><br></div><div style="font-size: 10pt;"> </div>

Siolae · March 2014

@Toddlesocks. Yes sadly your story is extremely familiar. I work largely with teenage girls. In addition to the casual violence, they contend daily with the risk and actuality of sexual assault. I am talking about girls as young as 11. There is an endemic and accepted culture of violence and casual sexual violence, which remains largely unreported. @brodiej I used to think like you, however it takes incredible personal strength and a lot of family support to not get sucked in, because it is normalised and because for most it is safer to be in than out. Every street in the area is 'owned' by one group or another. It isn't just on the estates. Leaving home to walk to school is a risk for all teens. I have personally known both the murdered and the murderers. Those are the high profile cases. However I have also yet to come across a single teenager who is unaffected in some way.

ChangN4N6 · March 2014

This is really worrying because it is not obvious if you don't have kids that this is going on. I assume if a kid opts out ie does not get involved socially with the gang people they are better off, but it looks like u can't avoid it if they know you. Siolae, tho I can't quite get that every street has a gang dominating it. The streets round here Lorne etc seem free if it, or am I wrong? Chang

Papa · March 2014

That's my point really, spelled out by a number of stories. Inner city life is hard, in a way that out of town life isn't - even for nice middle class kids.

Toddlesocks · March 2014

It is very sad and worrying, when my son was a teen in the area it was around the time of a few murders between rival gangs in Tottenham and Hornsey ( shooting at party and on wood Green High rd ). It really escalated the situation locally for a few yrs. Tit for tat random assaults on each others 'turf' regardless of whether known gang members or not. <div><br></div><div>I live on SHR almost opposite St Aidans, there was a party in the church hall two summers ago, lots of teens attending ( thankfully lots of adults as well ) . I was out talking to my neighbor and some local teens came along, asked us what was going on, very curious if those attending the party were local, being very territorial . I said yes of course, realising how volatile a situation it was. Didn't convince them they still sniffed around and made some phone calls to report on it, thankfully don't think any trouble kicked off but shows even a party in a church hall can be seen as an issue! <br><div><br></div><div><br></div></div>

[Deleted User] · March 2014

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Idoru · March 2014

There were two rival gangs where I grew up. The Arbury gang, which is the estate I grew up on, and the Milton Road gang. My next door neighbour's brother had both his arms broken by the Milton Road gang. He wasn't a member of the Arbury gang and didn't even live on the estate. The Arbury gang beat the crap out of some random Milton Road gang member in retaliation. They didn't even know if he was involved in the original attack, and didn't care. I was never a part of it and neither were my brothers. Friends of my brother's were, though. They spent a lot of time in prison. This was in Cambridge. G<span style="font-size: 10pt;">ang culture really isn't limited to London.</span>

Toddlesocks · March 2014

@Idoru- yes good point. My grandparents live on the outskirts of Glasgow, similar happened to my uncle growing up there and he's in his 70,s.

Detritus · March 2014

We didn't have gangs as such, it was more along the lines of the BNP v everyone else who wasn't an idiot. I am sure it's changed now. And teenagers had it rougher back in the day. http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26289459

[Deleted User] · March 2014

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