New Development Stroud Green Road
  • Vista
    I have just joined this website and note that last summer questions were being asked as to what was being built on the site of the old cinema fronting John Jones Art Framers.

    I am the developer and will be building a mix of luxury one bed and two bed apartments http://www.s-and-oproperties.co.uk (Flash enablement will be necessary to view the images) Completion is due September 2009

    The ground floor and basement area are for restaurant and retail units which will shortly be marketed. The final mix will depend on prevailing market conditions and interest.

    We are hoping this will greatly enhance the station end of Stroud Green Road

    Peter Phillips
    S and O Properties
  • poxy
    Your Tube map is a little out of date!
  • markpack
    Given how run-down the site had become, I'm glad it's being redeveloped. There is often though quite a lot of litter and graffiti along the pavement on Stroud Green Road at the building site. I wonder if you might be able to do a bit more to be a 'good neighbour' during the construction?
  • Vista
    Mark

    The new building has been designed especially to try and combat the problem of graffiti which plagued the original building. We have designed the pillars and support sections of the building to be on the inside behind the glass front - hopefully this will help.

    As far as litter is concerned I will ask the builders to look out for this but I do feel it is rather down to the public and the lack of street cleaning from the council.
  • markpack
    That's good to hear about the design. In the meantime, I'd have thought you're responsible for state of the hoardings around the site?

    Re. litter - in practice, I think everyone has to do their bit to keep our area clean, and to be fair the litter around the site doesn't look to be coming from those working on it. I guess the problem around the site at the moment is the number of places (e.g. foot of scaffolding) where litter can get lodged and so not be caught be a straight-forward sweep along the pavement.
  • Vista
    Dear Poxy

    Thank you for pointing out outdated tube map.

    I have replaced with an updated one
  • Vista
    Dear Everyone

    Given that the development is being undertaken in a recession when many are reluctant to expand their businesses, we will to a large extent be dictated to by the demand created at the time of marketing. I would have however welcome your thoughts as to what kind of restaurant/ retail outlets you would like to see come to the area.
  • andy

    I would say NOT a betting shop, Subway, chicken restaurant or estate agent.

    There's nowhere (really) to get music, books or clothes.

    If i were you, I'd try and poach Dotori from their rubbishy building.

    Also, picking a mainly white development next to an 8-track open air railway line and bus station? That's going to get dirty quickly.

  • hellojo
    I completely agree with Andy. Also, please no more corner shops that sell a million types of tins and packets - they are useful but we don't need any more.
    Stroud Green is missing a bakery/somewhere that also sells good bread - especially when Tesco and the beigel bakery are closed. Also cheese.

    In the original proposal, wasn't there going to be space for either a cinema or a swimming pool on the site? I saw something at the planning stage a few years ago.
  • rainbow_carnage
    A second-hand bookshop would be lovely. As would a second-hand music shop, like the one in CE.

    Anything second-hand (but nice) would do ok in this economic climate. Vintage clothing, furniture. I buy most new things online.

    Also, a decent cafe/coffee shop that stays open after 6pm. Perhaps it could be combined with a bakery. We've had three bakeries fail on this street in the last few years, two in the same location. All of them were crap. I'd love to buy fresh, locally baked bread, but it needs to be of better quality than what's on offer in Tesco. The bakery at Yasar Halim seems to do good business. Their breads and baklava are fantastic!

    It would be nice to have a decent greengrocers for a change. Woody's used to be ok, but has really gone downhill. I don't know if anyone can compete with them, plus the two Tescos and the Lidl.
  • unaestheticunaesthetic
    how about a small independent live music venue? somewhere willing to put on unsigned/up and coming bands, maybe something like the smaller venues in camden 10 or 12 years ago or so. with a selection of nice rums and tequilas behind the bar. and if this is a wish-list, it should not be trendy in any way. and happy to cater to experimental & noisy music nights :)

    i agree with the suggestions for a deli/cafe/bakery above. somewhere you can get a good cup of coffee and a sandwich and buy a nice loaf of bread and some good cheese for supper.
  • unaestheticunaesthetic
    as an aside/addition, i was thinking about things that are elsewhere in london that i wish were closer, or we had a local version of...

    gordon's wine bar (mmm, port and cheese. bring on the gout)
    marine ices (beats pappagone & porchetta hands down if you ask me)
    yasar halim (yes i know it's really close but i'm feeling lazy)
    the birdcage pub in stokey
    konditor & cook (best muffins ever)
    screen on the green/curzon soho
    the breakfast club (i know they're both only in islington but i refer you to the above laziness comment)

    any more?
  • rainbow_carnage
    To add to Andy's list of things we do not need:

    another nail salon
    a fifth pizza place (unless it's really, really good)
    a third Tesco
    another chemist (unless it's open on Sundays)
    another greasy spoon
  • tosscat

    Isn't the breakfast club a greasy spoon?

  • tosscat

    How about a tribute cafe called 'Pushing up Daisies'?

  • tosscat

    @ unaesthetic - didn't that pub opposite the south entrance to the FP tube foot tunnel used to be your small venue request?

  • unaestheticunaesthetic
    tosscat - maybe, but it's a bit dead at the moment.

    and the breakfast club is an 80s-themed brunchy type place. i don't remember if they did full english etc but they certainly had very decent eggs florentine, huevos rancheros and the like, and good coffee, with bloody marys and mimosas and other civilized brunch comestibles. my only problem with it was its vague air of hipsterishness, but i guess that's what's keeping it in business.
  • Colette
    I'm also backing cries for a good bakery/deli/coffee shop (along the lines of Good for Food on Blackstock rd). And a good butcher. I really would love a good butcher; although that's probably wishful thinking.
  • Vista
    Thank you for your ideas - Please keep them coming

    Unaesthetic as far as loud music is concerned thats a no no. We have to consider the residents in the apartments above.
  • katiejane
    a branch of Rasa and a Monmouth Coffee. Super duper.

    totally agree with andy re: dotori - those guys could do wonders with a bigger and better site.

    @ tc - breakfast club isn't a greasy spoon - are you getting muddled up with s&m?
  • mapsa

    No loud music? So what about quiet music? A venue for ambient music perhaps?

    Otherwise, let me also join in the general clamour for the butcher, the baker and the civilised comestible maker.

  • Colette
    A good independent off licence would be nice too (especially if the rumours of Jack's demise are true). Jack's is great for beer, but the wine selection is pretty abysmal.
  • David

    Proper tapas please. Something like Bar Camino in Kings Cross might work though I don't care for the trendiness, just good Spanish food. A Brindisa would be awesome but doubt enough share that view.

    Perhaps a clothes shop - wasn't someone on here looking into starting one? Hold on... perhaps chase Danny up.

  • unaestheticunaesthetic
    mmm, tapas

    and lolz for the "quiet music venue"
  • andy

    A woolworths?

  • Vista
    Andy why didn't I think of that??????
  • Lucy

    I would like:

    cinema (like everyman in hampstead or electric in nottinghill - might bring in the crouch end/muswell hill crowd!) tapas - definitely. dog creche!!

  • Lucy

    ooh, and having just read about jack's - a decent off-licence (think someone has said this)

  • markpack
    There are an awful lot of cafes in the areas that are at the bottom end of the market. I'm surprised there aren't more that are one notch higher in the expense / quality stakes.

    Not that I'm criticising those there are - some of them, and their staff, are fab. Just surprised that there isn't more of a range of types.

    In deference to the interests of those of you with less hair than me, surely we need somewhere that sells wigs?
  • Vista
    One of the main problems with Stroud Green Road is that it is almost exclusively made up of small independant shops and restaurants.

    The only main players are Nandos, Tesco and Lidl. Therefore more upmarket or main stream companies are reluctant to put their toe in the water.

    Agents have already told me that the addition of a cinema to the area would be a no brainer magnet for the main players.

    I guess they see a lack of big names and automatically think there is no money or very little demand in the area which of course is not true.

    Unfortunately, I do not think that my site would be suitable for an Everyman type cinema as the basement level is too shallow but I will look into it.

    I understand too that other plans for the area are in the pipeline although nothing formal has yet been proposed and so no details are available yet.

    Another major problem is that in todays climate of massive discounting and recession companies are reluctant to expand their businesses unless it is to prime location retail sites.

    I want to thank all of you for your input and hope you continue to keep this thread alive.

    Regards

    Vista
  • andy

    For me, one of the main attractions of the area is that it doesn't have the 'main players' in it.

    I think that's true of lots of people in the area.

    If you could find a way of encouraging genuinely interesting and independent businesses to set up in your property, you'd be creating something unique. Which in the current market, is the only way you'll make your money back.

    Think Lambs Conduit Street rather than Upper Street.

  • unaestheticunaesthetic
    hear hear
  • tosscat

    hear hear, hear hear

  • Colette
    Well said, Andy. I think a lot of people would be very disappointed if the retail space were filled a "chain-type" store. Nandos, Miso and Tesco are not why I love SGR (although the Tesco is handy).
  • David

    Just wondering Vista, aside from a grand purpose built plan, like a cinema, won't you ultimately just put them up for rent under whatever restaurant and retail unit specs fit the site and fill it with whoever pays the bills?

    Or is this sort of a pre-unit design moment? Trying to see what type of unit to put in?

  • Vista
    David

    At present the plans are for restaurant, probably one larger one and one smaller one.

    Whoever goes in must utilise the basement area which is more likely to be a restaurant (kitchens and seating can be in the basement area as well as the groundfloor) This gives the basement area a higher rental value than for say a retailer who will just use the basement for storeage.

    As I have said before much depends on the demand when I go to market and yes the rental income is important to me but also having the right kind of operation to enhance the site is also important. It is a question of striking a happy balance.
  • matt
    I'd love to see Dotori move to a bigger premises just up the road, as mentioned by Andy far above.

    Other than that I wish you the best of luck - very exciting!
  • Duncan
    A Starbucks

    A fish and chip shop that stays open late

    A soup shop

    The everyman cinema is my favourite idea, if perhaps impractical.

    That location is going to be so amazingly convenient
  • Vista
    Forget the cinema

    Basement ceiling height is just 2.4 metres and the ground floor around 3.2 metres.

    The slab seperating the ground floor and basement is structural - remove that and the top floor will end up in the basement. Not recommended.

    Its a shame I never had the idea of the cinema a few months ago.
  • David

    I think the only sensible option now is a Laser Quest.

  • Ali
    The other devlopment for the area must be the Centre North development, anything happening with that ?
  • Donna
    How about a funky design shop - the kind they have on Upper Street?
  • matt

    donnaw: you should walk up SGR to Home, opposite Woody's

    I like the idea of a soup shop!

    I love Nin-com-soup at Old Street station

    http://www.nincomsoup.co.uk
    and their daily menu blog

  • Ed B
    Any shops or restaurants etc. that are on the classier side of things would be great. This end of the road (the new development end, where i own a flat) desperatly needs smartening up.

    Basically, as long as it's not yet another wig shop or hairdressers - how many does one road need!
  • Vista
    Ed I am doing my best to find an agent who shares the same vision for the site.

    Unfortunately this is not very easy in today's credit crunch market
  • The ginger monkey
    Hi Vista. Firstly - good for you coming on here and genuinely listening to local people. And best of luck with it. As for what goes there - I'd agree with all of the comments on here. But would much rather it was an independent restaurant rather than a chain. Though I guess in this day and age you'll be taking the biggest offer you get. Wouldn't say no to something really kid-friendly tho too ...
  • andy

    maybe we could do this: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/26/AR2008072601978.html

    That's because the model for Elements is unlike any other Washington restaurant, and, as far as the founders can say, unlike any other restaurant in the world. If it successfully opens, Elements will be the first "crowdsourced" restaurant, conceived and developed by an open community of experts and interested parties.

    I'm not saying raw pulses, but fresh food, big wooden tables, indie owned. etc etc

  • David

    The. Wisdom. Of. Crowds.

    Be careful mind, that could mean Nando's for all we know.

  • Duncan
    We could call it "Faintheart"
  • Vista
    Ginger Monkey

    You are right......I do have to consider who will be successful and who has the finacial clout to take on expansion in today's market.This sadly does not allow me to follow what I would like to see but I am trying to be mindful of all your comments.

    Whoever ends up going in there though will make a vast improvement to this end of Stroud Green Road.

    The apartments will all be finished to an extremely high standard and will set a new benchmark for others.
  • Mujo
    Hi Vista,
    thanks for your input here. It's good to know what's going on.

    I have a few questions...
    How far on is the development? When will it be finished?
    Will the cycle lane stay closed til work is complete?
    Are any of the flats housing association or are they all private?
    How many retail units will there be?

    thank you :o)
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