New Development Stroud Green Road

JoeV

Please pardon my semi-rantish tone, it's really not meant to be but this is what I don’t understand:

Everyone seems to want Stroud Green Road to be either Upper Street or now Stoke Newington Church Street. If those are the model High Streets then why not just live in Stoke Newington or Islington if those are the types of areas preferred?

I’m not saying love it or leave it but having Stroud Green be something other than what it is would mean that many of you could no longer afford to live here, at least if you rent like I do. I know I couldn’t. I’ve been living in the area for more than 3 years now and rental prices have risen dramatically – or do most people on this forum own their flat or house?

Church Street is lovely but the price of property in Stoke Newington is much higher than Finsbury Park and Stroud Green, too high for an area without a tube stop. And Islington is Islington, what can be said?

I like Stroud Green Road because it’s normal, for lack of a better word. Yes I would like a decent bakery nearby, but it’s a busy, lively street with a nice mix of shops and restaurants – neither posh or down at the heel. Maybe they might not be the types of shops you’d like to shop at all the time, but the fact remains that many people do, and most are independent, including the much disparaged wig, cosmetics and kebab emporium.

Vista

There seems to be arguements for and against chains and independents.

From my perspective I do not want to attract anything which will not enhance the site. I have luxury apartments above these units and must be mindful that I do not degrade their value.

David

If I was buying a flat above some retail shops the first type of shop that would raise alarm bells to me would be a fish and chip shop. My brother once lived above a chip shop and good fish or not, you'd have that smell rising up to your shiny new pad constantly. He hated that place, the smell permeated everything he owned. Yet you were talking to Toffs, no way would that enhance the site from a luxury apartment buyers point of view.

Donna

I'd like an M&S as well.

JoeV

The train yard, car wash and industrial site next door would be the biggest turn off to me but a block of flats, luxury or otherwise, is better than a derelict site. I’d reserve judgement of what is characterised as run-down until after the building is completed and the units rented. I’ll be happy with anything other than empty-shop fronts.

unaesthetic

personally i have nothing against the wig shops (even if they do freak me out a bit) or the chicken-foot retailers. (one of my favourite signs ever is "GOOD COW FOOT") they *are* good at what they do, and successful, regardless of whether we shop in them. when i said "crap and successful" i was talking about starbucks and the like. i'd much rather have "odd and successful".

i have no wish for sgr to turn into upper st or church st. sgr has its own (slightly wonky) charm which would be undermined by things like starbucks or m&s, precisely because they're the opposite end of the spectrum from said wonky charm. i agree with what joev said - it's a busy street with a good mixture of places. i'd like that mix to continue!

tosscat - "gets on my jangles" made my day :D

les08

I divide SGR into two areas - Below the Traffic Lights, where all the weirdo meat shops with the weird smells are, and above the Traffic Lights, which is were i exist given the choice. That said, my favourite advert Below the Traffic Lights was "Bush Meat" ( a few years back before the legality of it descended on the shop manager). I have a fondness for the perennial "Clean tiliapia", which suggests that a few unscrupulous shops might be selling something exactly opposite.

Fin

Like it or not chains are the most likley source of successful shops which might enhance the area. Current environment means any independant could struggle for funds and ultimately keep going.

Starbucks may not be popular but a successful one can often be a catalyst for more interesting cafes to give an area a chance (there are 5 on Upper St). An M&S Food would also be nice, a Waitrose would be brilliant. A Sainsburys would be an improvement if only for more variety than the current choice of Tescos or Tescos.

More interesting chains which I'm guessing would be popular are Euphorium Bakery and Le Pain Quotodien (google it). The latter are expanding all over London at the moment, worth a try.

Finally I think a gym and a book shop would both do well, expecailly that close to the station.

Colette

@ Fin - there are no interesting cafes on Upper st. so the Starbucks argument doesn't really wash.
Anyway, Starbucks is on the way out isn't it?

Fin

No interesting cafes at all in the Upper St area? That's a whole new debate on it's own.....personally I like Ottolenghi, Euphorium and S&M cafe while my wife's keen on Kikka (a Philipinno cafe, surely at least quite interesting???)

Colette

Euphorium and Ottolenghi are full of Upper st oiks, and are insanely overpriced.
S&M is on Essex rd.
Not aware of Kikka.

Fin

The original point was that the presence of a successful Starbucks can attract other businesses to the area. S&M is just off Upper St and a few hundred yards from not one but two Starbucks, certainly "in the area".

Kikka is great, just off Highbury & Islington, nice garden for warmer months.

Bridget

I totally agree with Fin. Independents just dont have the financial clout to spread their wings in this current climate. A friend of mine was looking to open in SGR but it is just too risky at the moment. I agree it would take a chain to dip their toe in the water to build up confidence and attract customers.

By the way there is the lovely Tinderbox on Upperstreet amongst others. I think Ottolenghi and Europhorium are great too for variety ie great veggie food and breakfasts. Some let out rooms to different groups to meet etc. Its easy to be dismissive about N1 eateries. Not wholly fair.

I think its going to be very hard at the moment to attract anyone into the area. So fingers crossed Vista gets people in.

unaesthetic

the breakfast club is just off upper street and it's brilliant.

one chain (well, there are 5 stores) that i think would actually be nice would be a konditor & cook, but i think it's sadly unlikely.

fin - your theory is that a shithole of overpriced mediocrity is good for the competition? could it be because it makes the other caffs in the area look good by comparison?

tosscat

I really tried with Tinderbox but there coffee is crap. I see they've opened a little kiosk in the n1 centre, is that as rubbish?

tosscat

I really tried with Tinderbox but there coffee is crap. I see they've opened a little kiosk in the n1 centre, is that as rubbish?

andy

Tinderbox is owned by a coffee merchants, so not quite independent and might do well. I would also lob in yet another vote for a cafe kick. As ever, the debate here tends to divide us into two groups: People who live round here because they couldn't afford Upper St/Church St/Crouch End and are waiting for it to gentrify. Most common request: M&S Food People who like it as it is, in all its Cow Feeted, bewigged joy. Most common request: A completely imaginary NY style cafe-meets-independent bookstore-meet haberdashers that is probably the world's least economically viable business. Personally, I think the only business that would thrive on that spot is a "Cobra Kai" dojo for evil teens, run by Mr Miyagi's nemesis, John Kreese. Strike hard, strike first, NO MERCY!

rainbow_carnage

We rent, so we really can't afford gentrification. We also lived in Stokey before moving here. Church St is a bit posh these days, but walk five minutes to Stamford Hill, and it's nowhere near as nice as SGR. Except for the Birdcage, of course.

There's no reason why we can't have non-gentrified food establishments serving tasty food. Jai Krishna does it. As does Petek. Yasar Halim is my current favourite bakery. That's about as far from posh as you can get. And all three seem to do very good business, credit crunch or not.

Coffee shops can be very profitable. The markup on coffee is ridiculous. A cappuccino costs almost as much as beer, but without the booze tax. A bookshop, on the other hand, will never make any money.

Btw, has Chapter One gone out of business? The last few times we've walked by, it's been shut.

tosscat

I didn't know you liked Yasar Halim RC! You live and learn.

David

Andy, this? <http://www.cobrakaidojo.com>; - it could sell [these](http://www.cobrakaidojo.com/gallery/cobra_kai_gi/frank1)

hellojo

I thought of something else this morning - shoe repairers i.e. Timpsons? Not sure where the nearest one is - I always take mine to one near work

As the gentrification debate:
When I said bakery, I meant bakery, rather than patisserie, i.e. with good, and reasonably priced bread. I would use the rest of the SGR shops (which I really like) more if I didn't have to go to a supermarket to buy things I couldnt get there i.e. brown/granary unsliced bread, and non plasticky cheese. Le Pain Quotidien etc are about 4 quid for a loaf of bread! What about the bakery in Crouch End ( Dunns? ) or similar
Tinderbox and Cafe Kick I agree
Please no M&S food...

David

So basically we want this: <http://www.dojobread.com.au>, but with blakeys. _"The connection between the bakery and the dojo goes way beyond the “DOJO” name. The mindset of the martial artist is perfect for making good bread. The baker also nourishes people and serves the community."_

Fin

unaesthetic, the theory is that if a sh!thole of overpriced mediocrity is successful, other businesess take a look and think if Starbucks can do well (ie get away with high pr!ced cr@P) then we could clean up.....so like 'em or not, a successful Starbucks often gives other (independant, better) cafes the confidence to take on new areas. If nothing else it shows there's a market for a £2 cup of coffee etc in an area.

If I remember my school boy economics correctly it's called the "clustering effect".

Colette

Is that you in the photo, Vista? Assume the Pizza Express thing is a joke? Things that SGR does not need more of: places to get average pizza (mind you, had a great t/a one from Pappagone last night, they've really pulled their socks up) http://www.islingtongazette.co.uk/content/islington/gazette/news/story.aspx?brand=ISLGOnline&category=news&tBrand=northlondon24&tCategory=newsislg&itemid=WeED18 Feb 2009 13:53:30:283

Vista

Colette No it isn't me in the photo - Im more like Brad Pit or at least like his brother Cess)

The interview with Islington Gazette was meant to bring some interest and to help reignite the once upon a time plans for further development

Vista

David

I agree Fish and chips can cause terrible smells for anyone living above.

We have, however, spent a lot of time addressing the problem with huge ventilation shafts to carry cooking smells away from the apartments.

Toffs is a quality operation and very clean but in any case it is extremely unlikely they will be coming.

Vista

Joe I could not agree more about the car wash, however, I am hoping that given time that will be developed too into something more interesting

Vista

We are very close to appointing an agent and will keep you all posted. All your contributions have been fanatastic. The community is very lucky to have such a great crowd contributing to the welfare of the area.

I do not have the faintest idea of what restaurants/retailers we will end up attracting but I will do my best to help enhance the area - afterall it is in my interest.

What I do know though is that Stroud Green Road has so much character. Add to that the fantastic transport facilities and the park itself and I think it is a great place to live.

Our development together with future plans for the area will do much to help attarct more business to the area and hopefully make it even more appealing than it already is.

Thank you once again to all of you.

Regards

Vista

xxxxxxx

A Saveloy is a sausage made of brains.

matt

I'm crossing my fingers for a gourmet soup kitchen! With good bread and vintage clothes and a TV showing old movies on one wall and another playing mario kart wii on the opposite one.