Stroud Green in 1945
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Having been brought up on the Dandy and Beano trip as a lad in Newcastle my reading efforts developed along normal lines so when we moved to London in the summer of '45 and I discovered a library on the corner of Mountview Road and Quermore Road there was no stopping me.
But reading at home was a problem - we only had gas lighting. I don't know how many houses had already been converted to electricity but the street lighting was also still gas and the lamps needed a gas- lighterman who came along on his bike every evening with a long pole, opened a window on the lamp and lit the lamp.
At home we had gaslighting in every room and each light had a 'mantle' these were sort of mushroom shaped hats which spread the light of the gas flame out. The best place to read was directly under a light although the hissing could be somewhat distracting. I had quickly 'bagged' my place which was in the corner next to the kitchen window and I could settle down for hours with a book.
I remember how exciting it was in November walking to the library after school with just the lights of the gas lamps faintly visible through the famous London fogs. Stapleton Hall Road was like a fairy tale, those houses were well lit up and out in the cold, in the fog and in the silence (in the real London fogs of the 1950s there was utter stillness) the lights of the front rooms were like beacons in the ocean.
My father was a qualified electrical engineer and had been sent to Newcastle when the war broke out instead of going into the services. Newcastle built warships and he was part of the crew installing the electrical circuits.
So, after moving to London the failing electric installations in the house became a challenge. Not only that but his hobby was making radios and later (I'll get back to this) televisions. Presumably, I can't remember, the council had already laid the electric mains in the road at some time because the road was pretty quickly fitted with electric lights and Dad's application (as a qualified eletrician) to connect the house to the mains was approved.
I had a crystal radio which I listened to in bed and there was a radio in the kitchen which was powered by an accumalator. This accu was about half the size of a car battery and just as heavy. One paid a deposit in a shop in SGR took the accu home and simply exchanged it regurlarly for a fully charged one for a few pence.
To be continued... -
Love it, Busby, thanks. I was a child of the 50s and I struggle to appreciate that this was only just a very few years before. So much has happened since.
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Continued from yesterday...
After the war finding a job wasn't very difficult for some people. There had been a lot of damage done, nothing had been maintained and people were keen to get back to a semblance of comfort.
Dad got a job with London Transport on the Undergound system. He worked shifts, didn't earn much but it was a start.
The open market was flooded with surplus war equipment and the people who dealt in this market were generally known as 'spivs'. If you had a little bit of money and knew where to go you could get anything. At home we had compasses, mercury switches, spectacles, ball-bearings of all sizes, altitude meters and a host of other pointless things which had more or less been thrust into dad's hands.
His need however was for electric cable suitable for carrying the load to the house. I don't know where he got it but one day it was there. There was an electrical shop in SGR down towards FP station and one in Blackstock Road, here he bought those pieces of equipment that he needed - mainly war surplus and cheap.
We're probably into 1946 now and he seconded me, a hardly eight- year-old boy to help him. The details have gone now, but I remember scratting around in the coal cellar pulling cables through walls by the light of a candle. In short he wired up the whole house so that the people below us and in the rooms above had electricity too. I'm pretty sure that this was all on the meter so shillings had to be fed into the slot to keep the lights burning. The cupboard under the stairs at the bottom was suddenly full of meters. I think the meters had been fitted by the Electricity Board which had its HQ in front of the town hall. This 'discovery' of his, that there were houses without electricity then became a second job for him and he earned himself a few bob by this means. He needed money badly because his second hobby appeared to be smoking - he was a chain smoker and smoked Senior Service, not a cheap brand such as Woodbines or CravenA.
My mother also found a job in the CravenA cigarette factory in Camden Town. This factory was/is a massive white building still in use today for something, on the left as you have passed Euston Station on the way by road to Holloway.
We children virtually ran wild. We went everywhere and in summer and especially the summer holidays there was no stopping us. Finsbury Park, the boating lake, the American gardens, the River Lea, Hampstead Heath, Spaniards Inn, Ally Pally - all our playgrounds, all reached on foot and returned from with burning hunger, tired but happy. Hobbies we had too. But they had to be free of charge - so there was stamp-collecting, football cards, model eoroplanes (made of cheap pieces of balsa wood) and the greatest of all - trainspotting.
I'll tell you more about this and the London Trams and 1947 next time.
Busby. -
Amazing, thank you Busby
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Someone once told me that Sandilands put in most of the electrical wiring in Stroud Green in the early years of the last century. Firm is still going strong.
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Busby: a question for you? I live opposite the library on the corner of Quernmore and have been told that my building used to be a Nat West bank before being converted to flats in 1969. Any confirmation on this you could shed?
Thanks! -
Staplejack; I went into google street to have a look how it is today. Well, I used the library between 1945 and 1953 and I'm pretty sure there was no bank there on the corner. So if there had been one at all it would have been after 1953. This is apart from the fact that in the fourties no-one had any money!
But here's a little tid-bit for you.
My way to the library from Florence Road once I had became a steam train enthusiast was via a path that ran from Dagmar Road to Quernmore Road parallel to the main line railway. (i'll tell more about this later) - but I remember distinctly coming out of the pathway in I suppose (without going into research) February 1951 and seeing a news placard outside the newsagent's shop near the library with the words written very big 'The King is Dead'. -
The name Sandilands does ring a bell, but I don't think dad got his stuff there.
Before I go further I'd like to tell you a few general things.
Most people had only the clothes they had on their backs. Us schoolchildren were supposed to have a uniform, if I recall correctly the colours were red and green stripes. Shirts had to last a week, there were even those who had their mothers turn the shirts inside -out for a further week. Underclothes were changed on Sundays - that is Saturday night was bath night. The tin bath would come out, the kettle and all available pans would go on the stove and everyone would have a bath. I had to go into the front room while my parents bathed (one after another of course - the bath was only small). Then it was my turn and afterwards clean pyjamas were issued. This state of affairs went on quite a long time as money was scarce in most families.
There was one really hilarious incident. Rowing boats were cheap on the lake in Finsbury Park simply because the cost coud be shared between for. And there was an island in the middle of the lake (I assume there still is), well this was like Treasure Island for us, if we rowed round the back we couldn't be seen from the boathouse and we kept our eyes open for park attendants. We liked to chase the ducks on the island and get them flying madly away. On the shore there was a large over-the-water-hanging willow tree. One day, as we were passing underneath this tree one of the lads (C) stood up and grabbed an overhanging branch, this was the signal for the two rowers to accelerate and C was left dangling in the air above the water. To keep it short - he fell in and went to wait in the island until we turned around and picked him up. Of course he went home wet. Well, he always wore a grey coat and grey trousers. But for two or more days he didn't come to school. When he did he was wearing what appeared to be new clothes, when remarked upon he admitted that the clothes weren't new - they had been dry-cleaned and so showed their original colour. !!! That's how things were.
On a Sunday most children went to Sunday School, I went to the baptist Church in Stapleton Hall Road - what I do remember is the harvest service and the masses of fruit, corn and vegetables piled up to show the 'goodness of the lord'!.
I only had one pair of shoes. Unfortunately the school expected us to play football on some Wednesday sport afternoons and dad would go mad when he saw the state my shoes were in. But he repaired all the family shoes himself. He had a shoe jack, you don't see them now I suppose - it was an L-shaped iron foot which he put on the chair between his legs and set to work. He simply bought squares of rubber (for this purpose) or leather - depending. Then he'd remove the worn-out soles and heels, on the stove he had a pot of glue bubbling away for this purpose too. He'd then cut the rubber for the soles and heels roughly into shape, glue and nail them to the shoes, wait until the glue was dry and then simply trim the edges around the shoe until the job was finished. If he used leather he had a special shoe dye to soak into the leather until everything was black again. easy isn't it! -
Thanks for all the info, busby, it's really interesting. As a long term resident, can you keep going until present day please?! I'll keep reading as long as you keep typing.
I live at that end of Regina and recognised the roof of the now Dairy but am so late to the thread that I didn't get in in time to say so and wouldn't have wanted to steal anyone's thunder... -
Where you hire out the rowing boats, there is still a sign saying 'abolutely no mooring on the island' - so I suppose you would still have to sneak round the back and keep your eyes open for attendants to get to 'treasure island' - plus ça change.
Incidentally the cost nowadays is £5, or £1.25 each if you're in a four. -
I cycle past your old house every morning, Busby. Do you want a photo? A bit of souvenir electrical wiring, perhaps?
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Wow! Busby, the audience is captivated by your stories. Please keep them coming.
My girlfriends granddad was a POW in in Japan during WW2 and he has all his diaries still in tact along with almost everything of any significance in his life documented such as his first car receipt, old driving licenses and even a letter to his wife from the King saying he was dead! Imagine the shock/joy when he turned up 3 years later.
It's amazing for us to be able to understand what life was like and to appreciate the sacrifices made at the time. As a child of '77 modern society is all I've known. I'm humbled by some of the stories I've heard and welcome anyone with similar memories to share them with us all. -
I've debated with myself a couple of times as to whether I should tell the number of the house in Florence Road - but - as I don't yet know what I'm going to recall I'll not yet (if at all) give it.
1947 was a year that entered the annals of the meteorologists because we had a very hot summer and a very cold winter with masses of snow. Quite honestly I can't remember the snow but the summer was a sizzler. In fact it was a year that became famous for its wines as the heat was all over Europe.
No-one could sleep, you could toss and turn all night without pyjamas and just with a thin sheet but it was to no avail. Everybody had all windows and doors open, in the evening everybody was outside sitting on the garden walls. The ladies often just in bras and shorts/knickers/slips - and the men strpped to the waist; there was no money for bathing costumes (and for what)! But there was a good neighbourly atmosphere and we all had the feeling that things would only be getting better.
Water was a problem. As it didn't rain and as there were no real reserves the taps were dry. The council had no other choice than to send tankers filled with water around the streets and all families would come out with vessels of all kinds including the Saturday-night tin-baths. The amount of water you could have was free but was rather restricted to the amount you could actually have standing around at home on the floor in vases, jugs, pails and so on. This water also had to be used to rinse the toilets so going down to the street with a couple of bottles didn't really sort any problems!
We children were as brown as berries, in fact part of the problem about sleeping was the fact that we played outside until late in the evening and then overheated and still excited were supposed to drop into bed and sleep.
We are talking about the time of the Ally-Pally Push and Pull.
The steam locomotives were a source of great pleasure (for us children) simply because the glowing ashes and coals they spewed out of the funnels set the embankement on fire, the grass being so dry. At times it was so bad the fire brigade were called out - the problem of course was water. If those of you who live on the ex-railway side of Florence Road go to the end of the back garden and look over the garden wall you may well see a ditch. In the 40s and 50s this was filled with water, the run-off from the embankement. This rest water was quickly used up by the fire brigade so basically they were left with no other choice than to try to beat out the fire by hand using any available instrument.
In about early September the heat came to an end with a massive thunderstorm. The whole of Florence Road was flooded, deepest on the Lorne/Marquis Road side, we went wading in bare feet thankful to at last have cold weather.
We were often in Finsbury Park and because of the heat mainly down by the New River, it was fairly shallow and because of the water shortage very slow-moving, so we'd climb over the fence and dip ourselves in it with one eye open for the Park wardens, who, dressed in brown suits were immediately distuingishable from all others.
You will all know that Alexandra Palace was, at that time, already sending out TV programmes - next time I'll tell you how our family became the first to have a TV in the home. -
Dad, as I have already said, was an electrician - in fact he was almost fanatical and it was the only thing he lived for it seems when looking back.
I know it's difficult to imagine today but Florence Road was virtually and empty road, even in about 1948 there was only one car parked and one motorbike with sidecar. Some deliveries were made by horse and cart and a vehicle was so seldom that we could play football in the road without having to stop or move out of the way.
I'm telling you this because even then, when the whole area was car- free Alexandra Palace was sending out a TV programme.
I doubt that we knew this, no-one had a set and no-one ever mentioned anything about it.
Until Dad said he was going to build a set himself.
Drawings appeared, blueprints as they were then called, and Dad sat down to list what he needed. In those days radios and Tvs consisted of valves, tuners, transformers, resistances, cathode ray tubes and a host of other things which you don't hear of today.
The first thing he came home with was a large sheet of aluminium about 3mm thick. He then scored it on one side at all edges then cut the corners and bent the al. so that the result looked like the lid of a box. This was the chassis. He then, according to the plan, bored all the holes and inlets needed. Don't forget there were no home electric drills, so he had two hand drills, one for small holes and one for larger. Both drills had a 'chest rest' so that you could put pressure on the drill by pressing onto it. But the large holes he needed were larger than the bits so he filed these holes out...
Once the chassis was ready he started to shop for all the pieces he needed, the purchase of these was restricted to what he could afford at any given time but it slowly went ahead. In the evenings he'd clear the kitchen table and start soldering all the wires onto all the parts. I can remember the day he came home with the cathode tube. It was a 9" screen and had a length of about 18 inches. Once he had soldered everything together he proudly stood up (it was evening) and said 'finished' . He plugged it in to the mains and in short after juggling about with the ariel we found ourselves amazingly watching tv from Ally Pally. I think there was about two hours of TV per evening. As far as I can remember it was mainly news and music hall and each evening started of with a picture of Ally Pally radiating waves from the large antenna on the roof.
Afterwards he went down to the shops and came home with a large piece of thick plywood, this was for the cabinet and he made this too all by hand. The joins were dovetailed, each cut perfectly, the cabinet when finished was then stained and then french polished. The chassis was fitted into the cabinet, bakelite knobs were added a piece of silk cloth glued over the loudspeaker hole and our TV was finished!
As you can imagine it was quite a sensation and there was a stream of neighbours all wanting a view and in the end all wanting him to build one for them too. For a while he did this but then slowly Tvs came onto the market, the main make was 'Pye' - they were somewhere (Ilford?) along the Southend Arterial Road (as it was then called) and he was often called upon to repair these sets which got on our nerves at home because the kitchen table was permanently occupied in the evenings and at weekends. -
Yet more fascinating stuff, Busby - thank you!
I live at 80-something Florence Road, backing onto the Parkland Walk. I've often wondered if any photos exist of the train taken from one of the back gardens. I've not found any to date.
I should add that when having a new lawn laid a year or so ago, we came across a large immovable metal object in the ground - given the history of the area, we decided to leave well enough alone... -
Just a short reply Donal.
There were two trains running to Finsbury Park, just backwards and forwards with the engines always at the same end (hence Push and Pull). They had only two carriages and the engines were N2 class. At that time anyone who had a camera had a Kodak Box camera. The problem was the cost of film and the cost of processing the photo's.
If you go into the website of the Hornsey Historical Society you'll maybe find out more.
The large immovable object you left alone in your garden was probably an old Anderson shelter. We had one in 'our' back garden. They were dug into the ground and roofed over as a place to go when the sirens went, ours stayed in place at least until 1952/3 when we moved. -
Many thanks for the extra info, Busby. An Anderson shelter would make sense.
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Things in general:
The real economic upsurge in the UK took place in the 50s. The post -war 40s were, I suppose, rather boring. There was a lot of poor people, a lot of men who were war-injured; - legs, arms , eyes lost. Of course you don't see them today because they are all dead. But it was normal then and as children we didn't think much about it.
In Finsbury Park, by the lake, there was (maybe there still is) a cafeteria. This cafeteria sold Wall's Ice Cream in big chunks between two wafers. It also sold Tizer (the appetiser!), a fizzy drink with a special taste. We took real pleasure in dropping great clods of ice cream into a glass of Tizer, waiting until the ice cream had melted a little then gobbling it out with a spoon!
In about 1946/7, all schoolchildren in London were told to bring a small bowl to school. A ship had docked in the Port of London filled with a cargo of cocoa and the government had decided to buy the cargo and let it be distributed to all the schools in London. We all went home one day with about five tablespoons of cocoa in our bowls. The advice given was to mix it with the same amount of sugar and eat it just like that, which we did. It was absolutely delicious!!! We still didn't know how bananas, pineapples and other tropical fruit tasted. In about 1948 we had a chicken for Christmas dinner. Unbelievable!
I'd just like to say that during the late 80s my wife and I had chicken in a small restaurant in Greece. After the first bite or two I had to put my knife and fork down because I could again taste the chicken of 1947. The stuff called chicken that we have today is a tasteless, factory mush.
I was fortunate in that I had a lot of friends who were interested in a lot of things. We evolved together with stamp collecting, chess, model making, cubs and boy scouts, playing football, cricket and hockey in the road, collecting train numbers, occasionally going to the Arsenal stadium on Saturdays - 9d to get in and sit virtually on the touchline! Until the moment came when, one after another, we started to get bikes.
Most bikes were made from frames collected from a junk heap, bombed-sites or back gardens, wheels swapped or begged for, any sort of saddle available, and most of the bikes at the beginning were fixed-wheel, that is no gears but just a direct drive. This fixed wheel drive was also the brake(s), so when you put pressure on to stop pedalling the bike stopped too - in relation to your speed and the strength of one's legs!
We had a new freedom and a chance to go on discovery trips - places we'd never been to before; Hackney marshes, Epping Forest, Broxbourne, Geoff's Oak, Cuffley, are some of the places that come to mind. And we discovered something else; there was a pet shop in Camden Town who's owner had a good market for grass snakes. So, at the end of June we'd ride out to Cockfosters (the bikes by the way were slowly getting better) each with a couple of dried-milk tins with holes punched in the lids - mothers of babies could get dried milk on the National Health - go to a small brook we had discovered to be full of snakes in late June/early July, catch one or two then ride back to Camden Town and sell them for 5 shillings in this shop.
Life was slowly turning into a real adventure and the introduction of pocket money created opportunities almost unheard of. -
Busby: Are you my dear (deceased) grandpa? He used to tell me similar stories as I sat on his lap as a nipper.
How many many legs do you have? My grandpa had only one. He lost the other in the war. A tank fell off the Vickers production line in Leeds where he worked. As a kid I used to greet him by giving him a quick kick on the shins to see if his leg had grown back. I invariably kicked him on the wrong (real) leg. -
I'm convinced this is spam.
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Naa, check his old posts..it's very consistent.
Plus, it is very interesting. -
@David - Perhaps its an elaborate joke to show how community groups will swallow all sorts and we will end up on TV documentary. Or it's a wanabee writer and all will be threaded together in a novel. But given it keeps us happy reading it why not? It's like Santa Claus for kids, let's not ruin the magic yet ...
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Surely David was joking...
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As much as I'd love OAP Spam to exist, I was indeed joking.
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The clarification was for benny's benefit....
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I don't know what 'spam' is - except of course for the tinned meat we had after the war. However, as requested I have continued the thread and have related the world as it was then for us youngsters in the 40s.
Maybe in these days of electronic entertainment when no-one really bothers about the world outside it is difficult to imagine or concieve of a world where things only got done by making an effort. But that's what we did and it has remained with me for all these years as something very valuable.
Enough said. Busby. -
I do hope your memoirs of the 40's have been more accurate than your perception of the present, Busby.
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I assume then, David, that you are at an age to compare...
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Hi Busby,
I think I speak for most people on here in saying that your posts are some of the most readable and informative threads on the board. The nature of this type of board is that anyone can make a comment whether it is relevant or not and sometimes this can divert from the thread. Please dont take any notice of such diversions and keep coming out with your memories.
Keep up the good work. -
Not at all Busby, I do know life still involves effort and going outside into the world in the present though. And don't get me wrong, you're posts are welcome. I think I speak on behalf of the other people on this site when I say a little humour around such posts is welcome too.
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Busby, don't be put off by smart-arse comments. We love this thread. Keep it coming.
Here's a question - do you have any recollections of Stroud Green pubs in the post war years? Or were you too young to go in them when you lived here? Did your dad use them? Did women go into pubs then?
There are a few on this board who should relate to that. -
I'm with David, it's all about balance...
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Yawn
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There was nothing smart-arse about disagreeing with Busby's vision of the present. It's simply wrong.
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I think David and Busby are both making valid points.
And I think everyone is really keen to read more of your contributions Busby. I know I am.
In particular, I was wondering if you'd ever heard of a shop called The Old Tuck Shop. I think it was on Florence Road?
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All I'm doing is telling you all how it was in the 40s, if you want to argue then argue amongst yourselves.
Well, DonnaW, the Tuck Shop was a favourite place for us schoolchildren. I've just looked into google street view and it is still recognisable.
It's not in Florence Road but lies at the beginning of Woodstock Road.
If you walk along Florence Road and cross Tollington Park towards Stroud Green School you'll see on the right (in google painted brown) a sort of shop. This was the Tuck Shop.
A lot of the stuff; sweets, lollies, ice-lollies, sherbert, broken biscuits, etc., were available in quantities equal to one penny. (Id). If I rememebr rightly other things were priced at 3d and above. We weren't allowed to take anything into school - most of us had school dinners anyway. And, just to say, we all had a cumpulsory 1/3 of a pint of milk every schoolday morning. It was quite busy at 'rush hours' and was owned by Mr ...., (name known) who lived in Florence Road just opposite to me, and he also had a building and contracting business. Mr .... was the father of a good friend of mine, and, as he was someone who got on with things he had more money than all the other neighbours.
His downfall was the attractive woman who served in the tuck shop in his employment.... and thereby hangs a tale.
Unfortunately the school way along Florence Road wasn't always pleasant for me because I've always been afraid of dogs and the family on the corner of Tollington Park (Upper? I'm not sure now) had a large and rather viscious dog which they allowed to roam freely. If I was fortunate enough to see the dog before I approached the crossing i'd simply walk down to Victoria Road to avoid any stress. -
I posted this on another forum, but I'm sure it will be of interest here too:
Some fascinating 1940's aerial photography is available on www.getmapping.com , taken from RAF and Luftwaffe stock between 1939-1950.
Type in N4 3JH as a postcode, and then switch to the "1940's hires" tab at the top of the map view area. You can see the area prior to heavy wartime bombing. That area was subsequently rebuilt to become Andover and Six Acres estates. -
Busby, you haven't posted for a while.
Do you have an answer to my question about recollections of Stroud Green pubs in the post war years - or were you too young to go in them? What about your family and neighbours - did they use them?
Do you remember them from the outside or what they were called in thgose days? -
Sorry, I missed your original question krappyrubsnif.
We lived in Florence Road from 1945 -52/3. My dad was a teetotaller because he'd seen the state his father and therefore the whole family was in because of drink.So it's clear we had nothing to do with pubs.
But don't forget a couple of things: Pubs weren't the same sort of social centres they tend to be today - that is most of those who drank did so at the expense of their families as there was hardly any money around anyway. Children weren't allowed into pubs, so it was common to see them sitting outside on the pavement or playing games. Naturally there were those 'better' pubs, but at that time there was nothing like that in SG. I think the most famous pubs around were the 'Spaniard's Inn' and 'Jack Straw's Castle' both up at Hampstead.
Nor, as far as I can remember were there many pubs to be seen in SG. There was the one on the corner of SGRoad and Tollington Park (name forgotten), and the 'Silver Bullet' down beyond FP station. I think there was also one at the junction of SGRoad, Hanley Road and Stapleton Hall Road.
In fact I think it's fair to say that pubs were looked upon as dens of iniquity and stank of beer. Most pubs (as I later got to know) sold a cheap beer which was the collected rests of spillages and probably not finished glasses. This was quite common I know, because for a while I worked a couple of turns in pubs as an 18year-old to get a bit of money.
Compared to today beer bottles were never to be seen smashed on the pavements - all bottles had a deposit, even for soft drinks, and any left lying around were quickly taken back to a source by us children.
Clearly, as a child I didn't interest myself in pubs, but know, from recent experience how pubs today have dropped in standards if I think back to the 60s when I started to go into them myself. In October I 'dropped' into a pub in Finchley, it was a still warm october day and I was looking forward to a thirst-quencher. . . but I quickly left - all the swearing was unbelievable.
I cannot remember if any of our neighbours used them. but I don't think so simply because there really was no money around and the neighbours, still in the grip of the war years had to scrape every penny together to live. In general, as I remember, everybody around were 'decent' caring people who were forced to start again after the war ended. I'm pretty sure that all of us children had happy lives, my time at SGSchool was never darkened by anything, I don't know if many can say that today. -
From the other post it sounds like the BlackStock is still stuck at 1945 !
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