Beardy Charity Bloke

graeme

You must've seen him, collecting funds, handing out leaflets etc. often at Finsbury Park or outside the old Library next to Woody's, usually on the topic du jour. (Iraq, Afghanistan, Titanic Survivors).

He was at Harringey Station this morning - on the platform(!), collecting (I think) for nurses and teachers. Wonder what his story is? Is he a registered charity?

Often thought of him as A) a chancer who pockets funds or Independently weathly with a heart of gold.

Anyone know him?

andy

Is he the articulate communist? I think he's a communist, old skool flava.

staplejack

Wilf. Top bloke. Gives out the Socialist Worker and copies of his poetry, on the 'better to be rejected than ignored' philosophy, rotating around the local stations maybe once every 3 months or so.

His main poem is 'a tale of evolution, revolution, counter-revolution and the struggle for life in general'. And quite engaging, at that.

Bobby

Although I did see him having a bad day, shouting "you're a fucking useless bitch" at a traffic warden outside the White Lion.

andy

He seems to be a ninja in the art of public order law.

More than once I've seen him berating a pretend policeman, loudly proclaiming "But what law am I breaking? What law am I breaking?" and then giving him a detailed lecture on freedom of association, powers of arrest and the fact that PCSOs can't arrest him anyway.

ADGS

Is this the guy with the red flag outside Tesco? He's affiliated to a really dodgy commie splinter group, ones who still buy the state line on North Korea as a worker's paradise, and salute Robert Mugabe as an anti-imperialist hero.

graeme

Not sure it's the same guy, never seen him outside Tesco.

Have to say I've not donated to him any time as the whole 'have a poem' stuff seems to be a way of distracting folk from asking for his registered charity status - i.e., he appears to be a freeloader who suggests he will fight the good fight on our behalf while we go to work to pay him to do so. Sure it's the dream job for him.

taff bach

The guy is a Maoist, Communist Party of Great Britain ( Marxist Leninist ) I think. I've had a beer with him and if you want to be his friend wear a Joe Stalin Rocks T-shirt!

rainbow_carnage

I find these people repulsive. Stalin killed twice as many people as Hitler (including members of my family). I've tried talking to them about it, but it's pointless. Between their ignorance and unbelievable stupidity, there really isn't much you can say that'll change their minds.

ADGS

Pretty much my feelings, RC, though I don't have the personal family connection. It disgusts me that a man with a red flag doesn't get ostracised in the same way a man with a Nazi flag (hopefully) would.

Philistine'sMonster

"Bit of politics there..." as Ben Elton used to say before he went crazy. Blimey what happened there?

If I may get on my horse (it’s not high, but it’s fucking big) and join the ride…

Please don’t forget, you’re discussing two individuals here and you’re making some rather personal allegations against people whom (I presume) you don’t know.

I guess it’s fair enough to discuss local affairs, personal opinions, your own political biases and the rights and wrongs of history, but (and I’ll leave the silly ironic T-shirts and “passionate flag-waving” or “occupation symbol” argument aside), to start accusing people in their absence of ignorance, stupidity and, more seriously, fraud, is (at best) cowardly and (at worst) possibly even libellous.

It’s certainly rude.

It also cheapens your argument, as the chaps in question have no opportunity to respond. If you have allegations towards these good people, the decent thing would be to make them to their faces.

We only have your word for it that you’re eloquent, witty or charismatic enough to change people’s minds. Are you really less ignorant? Are you really less unbelievably stupid? I can’t speak for you. I can’t speak for the gentlemen in question.

But until you are in complete possession of the facts, neither, I think, should you.

injoke

ah c'mon phil, he's got a beard! what more evidence do you need?

Philistine'sMonster

That's won me!

Let's burn them!

ADGS

I think accusing anyone who waves symbols of murderous tyrannies around of ignorance and/or stupidity is fair; it's the most charitable explanation for their actions given otherwise they must be downright evil.
But the fraud accusation, granted, could be on shakier ground.

Billy Bookcase

Please, your mealy-mouthed piety is loathsome.
There are lots of murderous tyrannies around both corporate and governmental.
Your own obvious need to over-simply and demonise is deeply problematic in my humble opinion.

rainbow_carnage

I have no idea who this beardy man is. I've probably seen him around. If not him, than someone else like him. My post wasn't about him. It was about people who use a mass-murderer as a symbol of their cause. The man killed 50 million of his own people. Give or take. He didn't think it was important to keep count.

50 million. 50 fucking million. This wasn't in a war. He just killed them because they disagreed with him. Or he thought they did. Or their neighbours said they did. Or he just didn't like them. 50 million.

To put him on a flag or a T-shirt isn't just insensitive, or politically incorrect. It's plain stupid. Either these people don't know anything about him, or they think what he did was alright. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.

I used to work for the living wage campaign. I've stopped working for the organisation, but I still very much believe in the cause. A couple months ago I went to a rally. It was led by a man I had never met before. He went by the name of Stalin. One of the organisers actually said, "Let's give a round of applause for Stalin," and everyone clapped.

After the rally, I approached Stalin and asked him about his name. It actually is his middle name. I asked if he knew that Stalin killed more people than Hitler. He laughed. He thought it was funny. It's not the man's fault that his parents were ignorant morons, but he's the one who chooses to go by his middle name.

And Jeremy, if you're trying to compare corporations that mistreat their workers and damage the environment with Stalin, you have really lost the plot. Or are you just spouting cliches off some posters you saw? Yes, there are a lot of baddies out there, but if you can't tell the difference between different kinds of wrong, there really isn't any point in continuing this discussion.

injoke

i imagine this sort of reaction is the point of the t-shirt. not saying you're wrong, just saying.

Billy Bookcase

So rainbow carnage is OK but Stalinist carnage is infra-dig? I get the picture though I find it shrill and facile.

Philistine'sMonster

What is Rainbow Cranage, by the way? What does it mean? This is fascinating stuff. I’m hesitant to join this discussion as I’m speaking from a perspective of relative ignorance: I’ve not read enough books, see, and my family wasn’t murdered by a tyrant. But I will because I want to actually learn something here.

I bet Stalin probably killed more than 50 million, but it’s not Top Trumps, is it? Doesn’t make him more or less evil than Hitler. They were both bad sods. And so was Henry the 8th, but we’ve got pictures of him everywhere. Or was he not so bad because he just burnt monks?

There’s a quote about Stalin saying that one man’s death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic, which sounds pretty damned evil to me. But that may be attributable to someone else demonising a demon. Dammit! I don’t know much about Stalin. Can anyone recommend any good books?

Anyway, this bit interests me more, Rainbow Cranage; does the mention of your charity work in these sentences… <i> I used to work for the living wage campaign. I've stopped working for the organisation, but I still very much believe in the cause </i>

…pertain to this bit…

<i> A couple months ago I went to a rally. It was led by a man I had never met before. He went by the name of Stalin. One of the organisers actually said, "Let's give a round of applause for Stalin," and everyone clapped </i>?

Or are you boasting?

Reason I ask is because if it is relevant, you seems to be saying that the organisers of the Fair Wage Campaign are plain stupid. Which is scary. It also demonstrates how easy it is for good-minded folk to be careless with stuff like this, which seems to be what Jeremy Fisher is saying (?).

Peace.

David

I don't think Henry the 8th would make the top 30 for a trumps pack to be honest.

Philistine'sMonster

Bugger.

He had a beard too.

(he had SIX of 'em if the rumours are to be true, heh heh!)

andy

Shrill and facile? Welcome to the Internet, have you been here before? This thread is ace. It's like a reverse version of [Godwin's law](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law). Everyone starts off accusing everyone of being Nazis, then works their way back to a reasonable position.

andy

And of course, that game already exists: <http://www.dontpaniconline.com/posters/view/?start=60&pid=99>; 

Philistine'sMonster

I found that incredibly insulting, Andy.

There's NO WAY Castro beats Mugabe on cronyism.

Coh!

rainbow_carnage

@Phil - I'm a little bitter about my ex-employer. OK, a lot bitter. I joined as a volunteer on the living wage campaign, then worked for them as a researcher. I quit when the organisation was taken over by god-botherers and the sort of people described above. I didn't like the tactics they were using, and was tired of being thrown out of hotels by security. I still believe in a living wage (see old threads about tipping waiters), but I can't stand to be around these people anymore.

I did go to one living wage rally a couple of months ago because it was at my uni. My friend and I were so appalled by what has become of the campaign we decided not to go back.

Hope this answers your question.

And "rainbow carnage" is a phrase from Hedwig and the Angry Inch.

andy

I am always amused by the heavy irony in the use of volunteers by charities campaigning against poverty and low pay.

Philistine'sMonster

That fills me in on the charity stuff. Ta.

Am scouring Amazon for Stalin books.

Lucy

I read Young Stalin. That was good. <http://www.amazon.co.uk/Young-Stalin-Simon-Sebag-Montefiore/dp/0753823799/ref=pd_ts_b_5?ie=UTF8&s=books>;

Philistine'sMonster

Ta. I saw that. Remember it advertised recently too.

tosscat

My giddy aunt.

David

That synopsis reads like your common garden Anakin becoming Darth.