Development of John Jones Site / Sketch House

Kate Jones

<p>Misscara - the Sainsburys isn't part of our building! We hate it too.</p><p>Thanks Arkady, we definitely haven't cut costs on the building, using the right materials is important - its so easy for buildings to end up looking cheap and ugly (theres the Vista reference again...). </p><p>To answer some of the previous questions about JJ making money and the subject of capitalist developers - we've actually rolled over the vast majority of our land value into the new building. We could have gone down the route of build it cheap and rent it high, but thats not what we're about. </p><p>Anyway... I hope its helped to put things in perspective for some people. Always happy to answer questions and hear peoples comments, good or bad.</p>

Arkady

Misscara, you know Kate has no control over other people’s buildings don’t you?<br><br>I, for one, would be very keen to see stronger legislation to allow local councils to restrict what kind of retail goes into our high streets. There should be much tougher limits on the number of supermarkets, betting shops, etc.<br>

yagamuffin

To be fair to JJ I don't think the Sainsburys building has anything to do with them.<div><br></div><div>I actually quite like the overall design, it's just the finish that let's it down. This I blame on the council not being rigorous enough during the planning stages. We cannot blame the developers trying for to get the most value for their money, it's up to our elected officials to ensure a high quality that will enhance the area's aesthetic for years to come...</div>

NorthNineteen

So basically people are complaining about the new flats/Sainsburys and City North rather than the John Jones development?<br><br>JJ are doing great things and doing massive amounts for the community by firstly keeping employment in the Borough, by designing something high quality which will include community uses, providing affordable housing and by not selling out to a developer who would have put something far taller on the site.  But yet because Kate very kindly posts on here she gets abuse.  I don't think that's very fair.<br><br>I think the windows being installed on the development look great and this development is going to massively improve this area.  I think those that have lived here for many years don't realise just how much a dump the area around Wells Terrace is.  <br><br><br>

Kate Jones

<p>Thanks for the nice comments :-) </p><p>The ground floor space is going to be really amazing - we have very tall ceilings and floor to ceiling glass windows all the way along the front. The corner (that fronts Stroud Green Rd) is going to be an eatery of some kind - currently working out who/ how/ what, but rest assured we want something affordable and cool in there. We did speak to Vagabond but they've just taken on their space in Holloway Rd, so timing wasn't quite right. </p><p>We'll be doing an official announcement about it all in coming weeks, but just to give you a taster - further along Morris Place, next to the eatery there'll be our Project Space which will be open to the public and will host art and design exhibitions, workshops, talks, film clubs etc - we're recruiting for a curator and programme manager at the moment, who will manage the space.  </p><p>I love how the Park Theatre has brought such a different feel to Clifton Terrace - we were there the other evening and during the interval, everyone spilled out on to the pavement for drinks. It felt so vibrant! (I'm used to hurrying along that road after dark and keeping my mobile phone out of sight..) Nice seeing people sit on the pavement outside having coffee too - brings the street to life.</p>

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miss annie

People either don't listen or can't read, I have said really quite specifically that I am not resistant to change. I love Park Theatre. I work freelance in creative industries - prop making, I'm pleased that you are encouraging creative people. I just don't like the look of the building and feel that it will change the community. It will be great for the affluent people who are deluding themselves that they live in hipsterville though. @NorthNineteen, do you know Charteris, Moray and the other lovely roads near Wells Terrace? 'Clerkenwell style warehouse' oh dear.

JoeV

<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial">@Kate Jones: Good luck to you and the company. I think the building is looking good so far and I hope the others will be of the same standard when built.</font></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">We all have high esteem for John Jones arts institution extraordinaire. But now that the company has stepped up as John Jones property conglomerate, it may be a little harder to love, but this is to be expected.</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Great news that you have a solid plan about the arts space. To be honest, I didn’t know that JJ had an arts programme at all, aside for the odd sale days. It’s good to know it’s more than a vague promise. If you can offer something in the visual arts on par with what the Park Theatre has become for performing arts, then I think it will generate a tremendous amount of good will in the community.</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">In regard to the JJ development, my only concern was that most of it was dedicated to student housing. There’s already a massive student on the </span><st1:street w:st="on" style="font-family: Arial;">Seven Sisters Road</st1:street><span style="font-family: Arial;"> opposite the Rainbow Theatre and it’s contributed absolutely nothing to area. But that's your plan and it's being built.</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial;">With John Jones remaining at the site, my hope is that they’ll continue to be a positive force in the area and exert influence on what happens there.</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p><font face="Arial"> </font></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial">(If you’re worried about development, focus your attention to the City North site, that’s the one that will really transform the area, for the worse in my opinion).</font></p>

NorthNineteen

"grim", "hate" and "ill conceived" are all quite strong words in my book but yes, abuse probably is a step too far.<br><br>How can you judge the look of the building when it is only half built?  <br><br>I know these roads very well, I walk along them twice a day.  Charteris is a particularly nice road though walking south, the view of a blank warehouse is hardly nice.<br><br>Lennox Road, Morris Place and Clifton Terrace can not be descirbed as nice roads.  The only good thing is Park Theatre, and JJ will deliver more of that.  Park Theatre has helped facilitate the developmnet that is occuring along Clifton Terrace which will improve this part further, now we need development to come forward outside the bus station on Wells Terrace.  There is no community in this part of Finsbury Park at present so I don't see how this is going to negatively affect it.  This will help give the area some life rather than just being a poor streetscaped transitionary zone.<br><br>London needs new development.  This is a suitable location with excellent public transport (meaning developments will be largely car-free) which at the moment is massively under-used by very low density uses.<br><br>As for the corner retail; something like Craft Beer Co., Brewdog or like the Crown and Anchor (Brixton) would be great, especially if it had nice burgers!<br><br><br>

miss annie

I don't understand why people want every area of London to be exactly the same. We have ended up with a culture where unless there is an overpriced burger bar and a Starbucks it's considered a dump. I live in Moray Rd, I don't just walk down it twice a day. I know my neighbours along the road, their families and the local business people. It might not be as glamorous as the million pound mansions up the hill,but it is a nice place to live.

Kate Jones

I'm actually considering offering the entire of our new ground floor to Primark now... )

Arkady

Nobody's advocating that Annie.  You appear to be sterotyping people and then being rather rude about them, just because they might want a nice independent shop or bar where there is currently a crumbling 80s warehouse that reeks of urine.  It's actually rather unlike you.  Indeed you spoke out in support of just this sort of thing several times earlier in this thread.  <br><br>You say you don't object to change.  What sort of development <i>would</i> be acceptable to you on this site, if not a mixed-use one containing students from the University of the Arts, affordable housing for key workers, a new drinking hole, and an arts building containing workshops and galleries?<br>

JoeV

@NorthNineteen: London needs development but who is it for? I don't necessarily disagree with you but with every new project, something will be lost and someone will be displaced. That has to be acknowledged I think.<br><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><br></span><div><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Because you don't see a community, it doesn't exist mean one doesn't exist. Aside from the street facing the station, all those roads you mention have people living on them and/or businesses operating. Fonthill Road is very busy. And even though I don't shop there</span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">, other people do. These businesses will eventually be displaced by City North. That might be progress but it seems to me unfair to dismiss them like they don't exist.</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 10pt;">It's one thing to build on an underutilised site but there's many projects around the area that have or will displace people - </span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Woodberry Park for instance. I don't know the history of the area but it makes me uncomfortable to see luxury housing replace housing estates, no matter how run-down they were.</span></div>

andy

Maybe this is the time to pitch the fast-food/restaurant idea that I want to take from another European city but that doesn't exist in London?<div><br></div><div>No. I've already said too much.</div><div><br></div><div>The River Cottage Canteen is expanding quite rapidly now and would be perfect, though i don't know if it would be against their ethos to open in London http://www.rivercottage.net/canteens/canteens/</div>;

NorthNineteen

And has anyone said that Moray Road, Charteris Rd etc. are not nice places to live?  Is anyone suggesting knocking down nice Victorian terraces for either mulit-million pound mansions or starbucks? No they are not.  And in fact, JJ are advocating independent businesses AND affordable residential units.<br><br>What change would you like to see around Wells Terrace/Clifton Terrace or do you not want it to change at all?  Is everything perfect there?<br><br><br>

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JoeV

NorthNineteen, you said that there's no community on Lennox Road and Clifton Terrace. I don't think the people living on those streets would agree. <span style="font-size: 10pt;">My point was that there will be winners and losers as the neighborhood changes, that's all.</span><div><br></div><div>I'm happy with the John Jones development in general. The building now going up looks promising and I don't think it's too tall or out of character for the site. I'm also glad they were able to secure their future and remain in FP and if the plans for the arts space comes to fruition as Kate outlined, then I think it will be very positive for the community.</div><div><br></div><div>As for the rest of it, yeah, I'm fine with the way things are. It's not pretty but neither am, yet I still found someone to love me.</div>

yagamuffin

I'm not sure we need another bar/pub in the area. A nice vegan/veggie cafe restaurant would suit me Something like Tide Tables in Richmond...

vetski

A good Middle Eastern eatery, please!

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NorthNineteen

They already do that Misscara!<br><br>For instance:<br><br>http://www.homematch.org.uk/property-details.asp?PropId=10268<br><br>Shared ownership of a 1 bed flat, near the emirates, for what you paying at the moment you could get 50% shared ownership.  Most importantly, only those who live (or work) in Islington are eligible and earn less than £66,000 per year.  I think the JJ development will have to use the same provider so it wouldn't surprise me if the requirements were similar if not the same.<br>

Arkady

I don't think it's reasonable that all students studying at London universities should have to commute from outside London. Even if you disagree, what you are forgetting is that dedicated student housing removes competition from the general housing stock of the type that you or I live in. Reduced competition reduces the pressure on rent rises, helping to keep rents lower. The idea propagated by some people in this thread that more housing will result in their rents going up is the opposite of reality. It’s called the market!<br><br>Student housing can be built even more densely than other forms of housing, making more efficient use of space. Better to see lots of it built, so that the students aren't instead taking over the terraces that you or in would like to live in. Sure, we want new housing of all sorts, for all people. But just because a certain housing type isn’t aimed at you doesn’t mean that its construction won’t benefit you.<br>

andy

@misscara - the fact that London property is expensive is hardly JJ's fault.<br>

NorthNineteen

I really like the bar in the Park Theatre too.  Which Craft Beer Co are you referring to as being like a cattle shed/soulesss?  I think that's a touch harsh, it may not be perfect and it is quite pricey for some things but discounting that I disagree that Wetherspoons are better.<br>

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NorthNineteen

@JoeV ; In terms of community, although I can't double check I'm pretty certain there were no local representations from Lennox Road, Wells Terrace or Lennox Terrace to the JJ proposal.  I know local residents/business owners haven't been engaged in the Finsbury Park AAP which is a shame.  That led me to suggest there is a lack of community.<br><br>Fonthill Road and residential areas slightly further away are very different and I would not tar that with the same brush.<br><br>I'm also keen to keep the discussion on JJ rather than other developments.  I have some experience of planning, urban development and policy and I feel the JJ proposals are exemplary because:<br>- retain employment in the town centre<br>- its a high quality scheme in a low quality area, this is incredibably important as it helps set a bench mark for other future development<br>- amazingly the urban form of the JJ block will improve the Vista (Sainsburys) building, not through dominance or competition but through integration<br>- looks like it will provide retail and community assests that will benefit the local area, all too often new developments just go for the highest profit easiest option (see Vista) which is typically a Tesco/Sainsbury, Costa or Subway, or far too often empty retail.<br>- considering it's central location and high public transport accessibility they probably coudl have gone for a higher density and taller towers, the development has however been sympathetic to the surrounding areas and hopefully won't dominate the quiet residential areas<br><br>Lack of public space is a negative and some of the private green space allowance looks on the low side (but FP is near by), it's also a shame they couldn't integrate the butchers site into the proposal but I think there is a future opportunity for this.<br><br>I think while City North has some merits it fails on much of the above bullets.  With JJ I don't know whether it was the client that pushed this brief or the client actually listerned to advice of their consultant/developer but the end result is a development that should be congratulated and welcomed.  Just my two pence!<br>

NorthNineteen

@misscara<;br><br>Sorry, getting confused between you and Miss Annie! Key worker housing is very rare now, most affordable housing is based on primarily what you earn and sometimes where you live/work.  That to me is the correct way round.<br>

Kate Jones

<p>I believe <a href="http://www.affinitysutton.com/en/">Affinity Sutton </a>will be managing the affordable housing element although this isn't due to be completed until 2016 so probably no details yet</p>

yagamuffin

@Misscara Out of interest how much less than £200 a week does that commute cost?<div><br></div><div>And on a more general note, I know I'm out of touch having gone to uni in the 90's with a grant but isn't there financing in place to cover the cost of accommodation for students?</div>