Development of John Jones Site / Sketch House

JoeV

Whether or nor Islington council was being fair or not, the rejection just wasn't done on a whim in my opinion. There was a political context. <div><br></div><div>It was my understanding that in 2010, Labour won control of Islington council from the Lib Dems and one of the issues was that under Lib Dem leadership, the number of student housing developments in Islington rose dramatically so much so that the borough had far more students than other London boroughs, and far more that actual university places in the borough.</div><div><br></div><div>Given the housing crisis and lack of affordable homes, it's a valid argument. Should the borough continue to greenlight developments, which allow developers to make maximum profits while building structures of the minimal possible standards in terms of space and amenties.<div><br></div><div>The JJ/Sketch house got caught in the cross-fire, which on face value is unfair given that their development had already been given the green light but that's the price big-time developers pay.</div></div><div><br></div><div>WIth that said, I think the buildings look good, far better than most of student developments I've seen, especially the ones on Caledonian Road, which are awful. But I'm sorry, the students are welcome. like anyone else, but the fact that they are there will mean absolutely nothing because the housing is essentially a hotel.</div>

Papa

The buildings do look good - the whole site looks much better than I expected, but as JoeV say there is a very valid point about using precious new-build land for student housing, which is currently in the foothills to halfway seat stretch of a bubble.<div><br></div><div>I understand the argument that this creates room for students thus meaning they don't put pressure on the existing housing stock - but the flipside is that this is attracting new students into the area who otherwise would not have lived here.</div><div><br></div><div>That said, they will surely benefit local businesses.</div>

marko

For sure, they're generally not experts in either planning to law.  They need to take input from widely, but I would expect that professional advice would sought,0p listened to and heeded. 

NorthNineteen

There's been quite a it of research about the economic benefit of students in cities outside of London and especially if they stay in the location they lived during university, I'm not sure how much that applies in the London context.  But students are very economically beneficial, they contribute a lot to the local economy and will help support some of the independent shops and restaurants in the area yet have next to no use of local services.  They also won't be using cars so no pressure on parking/traffic congestion.<br><br>The thing is people are always going to want to come to uni in London and many will naturally drawn to North London due to the universities in Bloomsbury and now UAL. When I was at UCL I lived in halls in Fitzrovia first year and then the natural progression was north to Islington and then Tufnell Park.  I'd say 95% of my friends lived in North London in Camden, Kings Cross, Finsbury Park and even Seven Sisters (which seemed miles away back then) - the people living in the student accommodation would be competing with people at the lower end of the private rental sector either around here or further north into Harringey.<br>

marko

Agreed - although a certain amount of expansion is now allowed at elite universities (just limited to the Russell group?) , UAL isn't one of them.   A 475 bed facility is effectively freeing up about 100-150 larger private rental properties around London.  It is also helping to prevent some of the social problems that occur in neighbourhoods with a large proportion of private housing rented to students - often by landlords who don't particularly look after their properties. <div><br></div><div>The winners locally are likely to be pubs, coffee shops, cheaper restaurants, and (sadly) fast-food outlets.  This number of students may well change the The Worlds End in a good way.</div>

verga

http://catalogue.auctions.savills.co.uk/London-National/online-catalogue/#&&s=08aeca08-07ae-4309-a7d4-a0404a1a9c0a<div><br></div><div>so the commercial plot on the corner opposite the World's End is for sale at auction... 900k for 65k a year of 'national charity shop' rental - ah there we go, let to Crisis UK</div>

marko

<span style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal;">So, whatever retard at Savill's wrote the description included this gem:</span><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><br></div><div><p style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.689em; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: 15px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 8px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; color: rgb(109, 118, 121);"><font color="#000000" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 11px; vertical-align: baseline;">'Underground Station - Archway (Northern Line), Manor House (Victoria Line'</font></p><p style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 8px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Failing to spot that it was less than 150m from Finsbury Park underground station.</p><p style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 8px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">ION: I'm surprised that Crisis can turn over that much in that location with that floorspace.</p></div>

Papa

That's a 7.2% annual yield - not bad. Presumably with inflation linked rent rises built in that will see the return grow over time, although Crisis has a first nine months rent-free.<div><br></div><div>Potentially likely to go higher than that £900,000.</div><div><br></div><div>No offence to the people at Crisis who do important work, but I think it is a real shame such a prime space hasn't gone to something that isn't another charity shop on a High Street.</div>

miss annie

I'm pleased it's not another coffee or food place. I don't know what kind of retail could do well on SGR, people only seem to support coffee and food outlets. Other things don't last very long.

ADGS

Yes, a pity places like the many Paks and New Beacon Books were doomed never to last.

verga

Wigs do very well down that end of the street.  I had heard somewhere that it is a destination for people from all over London 

miss annie

True, hair & beauty services do well here. Mr Pak has emporia all over London, and a massive website that ships all over the world. Do you think a new bookshop would thrive, or is New Beacon still going because it is so specialist that people come from outside the area? I suppose there might be potential as long as it's expensive and Modern. Hettie Holland seems to be doing ok. Being next to a coffee shop that has exactly the same clientele she is going for must help enormously.

verga

I reckon NB still going presumably because they will barely be paying anything in rent<div><br></div><div>I am also surprised that the Crisis maths stacks up to support that rental.  Over £200 a day in rent sounds like a lot, in spite of it being a big space.  </div>

verga

Although not having to pay rates must really help, and presumably not having to actually buy any of the stuff they sell

miss annie

Charity shops have no wage bill as they are staffed by volunteers, they don't buy their stock as it is given by the public and they pay 0% vat. Quite a lot easier to make a profit in a charity shop than any other high street retail.

quince

Actually there was an advert for a Finsbury Park shop manager on the Crisis site a couple of months ago - before the location was announced.  Salary somewhere in the mid-twenties, I think.  So some staff cost involved here.

miss annie

<p>Really? I thought charity shops were staffed by volunteers.</p>

quince

Some do, some don't. Oxfam bookshops pay managerial staff. Currently advertising a role in their Bloomsbury branch - £23k.

kreuzkav

It's now built, it is horrible.  I'm not trying to be down on the shops around it.  But in the auld days, you rented a space and started a shop.  Not in a development with a song and dance about who is going to start a shop in an empty space.  Hyper capitalism has taken hold of this area. Sad as this was once a very individual area.  

miss annie

Bloody hell! That's high for retail.

quince

https://jobs.oxfam.org.uk/vacancy/bookshop-manager-bloomsbury-london-trd0607/3318/description/

verga

am not sure that having a charity shop could really be described as 'hyper capitalism'<div><br></div><div>also, regarding the individualness of the area - i was just thinking about chain shops and on SGR itself the only chains i can think of are the Sainsburys and Tesco, a Costa franchise and betting shops, oh and Nandos</div>

kreuzkav

Verga, you forgot Starbucks.  And Porchetta, now that it has opened about five new branches, it looks and is a chain.  They even do delivery.  <div><br></div><div>There was a bit of self-deprecating humour in my post.   </div><div><br></div><div>I accept SG is different now.  It's slicker and more moneyed.  Sometimes i have a little cry about it.  But life goes on.  It's still a great individual area.  SG is hanging in there. </div>

Arkady

kreuzkav, the little thing you do where you say something obviously hyperbolic and objectively wrong, have it pointed out to you, and then retract it in the next message while pretending you were joking is about as predictable as the sun rising in the east.

maclondon

I take exception to the sun rising in the east! A more interesting point is whether City North fundamentally changes the area (whenever it restarts) my guess is sort of. You can easily see the other properties around Clifton Terrace being rebuilt like the car wash, etc. The bigger question is how London is changing because of too much foreign money and lack of affordable housing - many things about London are getting better but without tackling these points, London will choke. On the other hand , Stroud Green is unlikely to be the first choice for the super rich!

Arkady

I suspect that the new street link and station entrance will be fairly well-contained - surrounding shops should benefit from increased footfall but the council seem determined to keep Fonthill Road as it is. It's not obvious to me how else the City North development could affect things, other than an increase in local employment through the shops and businesses.<br><br>Whether the John Jones site development has changed things is a slightly different matter - it's increased the number of businesses (and therefore employment), given accommodation to a charity, increased the number of affordable houses, and increased the student accommodation (thereby relieving rental pressure on private housing) - all while retaining and expanding a local keystone employer. It's hard to see how these things could possibly be detrimental, as some people are incoherently arguing. "But in the auld days, you rented a space and started a shop" - well yes, and that's what people are doing now - there's just more space to rent.<br><br>It's no longer disputable, of course, that insufficient housing is being built in London. We should all be watching the mayoral candidates closely for their plans on this (to my shock and slight distaste I find Zac Goldsmith's ideas about funnelling foreign investment into houses for actual Londoners - rather than as empty investments - rather compelling). But hand-wringing about an area being ruined or somehow being less friendly to business or people on low incomes on the grounds that extra business space and relatively affordable housing has been built is totally incoherent, not to mention conservative.<br>

NorthNineteen

After City North I suspect the entire block between the bus station and John Jones will be redeveloped, I'd also expect Wells Terrace to undergo the same type of development at Clifton Terrace (new 4-5 storey blocks of flat with retail at the bottom).<br><br>It will definitely change the feel of the area and I suspect there will be a price knock-on for any property accessed via Wells Terrace.<br>

Ali

<p>The space mentioned above looks like  a data centre I think for Willaim Hill</p><p>With Weathersppons up for sale maybe it has got too posh</p>

Sutent

It it me or is there more vomit on the streets now since the students moved in. Its not much of a problem as luckily we have foxes and pigeons to clean it up

krappyrubsnif

I don't know about vomit but the pavements have been littered by rubbernecking family groups as the new students have been steering anxious mums and dads around, showing off the mean streets of N4 to nervous out-of-towners. Season must have done well out of it.