10-Second Stroud Green Survey!

Papa · February 2012

I always think of Finsbury Park being the area below the park and running sideways along the Seven Sisters Road towards Hornsey Road. Residential area above the station, ie from Woodstock upwards I consider Stroud Green, but more strongly so Tollington Park and above. That bridge raises a major bugbear of mone. Obviously, I know this is where TFL makes a lot of sneaky cash, but that bridge thing highlights why a cornerstone of any mayoral campaign should be to make it that you can get off one bus and onto another without having to pay double fares. (Or off a tube and onto a bus and vice versa) Not exactly a joined up transport system when you have to pay twice as much as you should need to to get from Stroud Green to Highbury on a bus, due to them not going under a bridge.

checkski · February 2012

@harpistic @miss annie The 236 used to continue northwards under the bridges, and finished in SHR, as far as I remember. Very useful. I wish it still did. Why doesn't it?

miss annie · February 2012

Now that would be splendid! Surely there's no reason why it can't?

harpistic · February 2012

There's information about the 236's history here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Buses_route_236 ;

ADGS · February 2012

For me, Stroud Green starts at Fiveways, and runs from there to the library.

Arkady · February 2012

Judging by the survey results that excludes most people who regard themselves as being in Stroud Green. I hope to publish them soon, by the way. Over 100 submissions so far.

ADGS · February 2012

If everyone who said they lived in Stroud Green actually did, it would be the size of the Cavern Club.

miss annie · February 2012

Or for Londoners, The Blind Beggar.

gardener-joe · February 2012

The unused bus stand marked in the road on the Mount Pleasant Villas side of Victoria Road is the remnant of the 236 bus. it ran up Mount Pleasant Crescent at the end of its route; clearly there were no psrked cars about then. A former neighbour of mine - now dead - was a clippie on that route. The road marking for the bus stop has been repainted in recent times even though no bus route now stops/terminates there, nor ever has in the 20+ years I have lived in SG.

krappyrubsnif · February 2012

The road outside the Stapleton Tavern is cobbled because it was a bus stand or turning point - early horse drawn buses - so I've heard. Couldn't get up the hill. Precursor of the 236?

Papa · February 2012

@ADGS, Stroud Green's more like the Tardis, as it keeps moving around. It started as around the Stapleton and down Stroud Green Road as far as Finsbury Park, got moved in the direction you suggest and now Google's stuck it in Crouch End. @Gardener-Joe, @KRS, I was thinking something similar to your points yesterday after taking a fresh look around em in the context of reading the bit of Stroud Green history in John Hinshelwood's books and looking at the old map: 'Isn't it funny to think that most of the area around us that we take for granted and homes that we live in were built for such a completely different world that there were no cars around.'

Idoru · February 2012

I love the idea of Stroud Green being like the Tardis. BTW, I don't live in SG.

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Arkady · February 2012

There was someone on Burgoyne Rd too.

krappyrubsnif · February 2012

If SG is the Tardis, who is the Doctor? And who is His/Her Assistant?

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miss annie · February 2012

London Road is in London.

Idoru · February 2012

@Misscara. I am indeed Turnpike Lane. But as we know I practically live at Sugar Lounge. I should have put that as my postcode.

Arkady · February 2012

John Hinshelwood makes it clear that Stroud Green originally referred to the area that the area either side of Stroud Green Lane from near the library on Blackstock up to to the top of Crouch Hill. Incidentally, Harringay was similarly originally called Beans Green, meaning the area either side of that stretch of Green Lanes. Neither name applied to a specific hamlet or other settlement. There is a tendency to think that Stroud Green only applied to the area around the Stapleton, but that was not so. Buildings either side of Heame Lane (which was later overlaid by Seven Sisters Road) were considered to be in Stroud Green too. Think of it more as the collective name for the farms and scattered houses along a particular stretch of broad and unsurfaced trackway. Stapleton Hall was one such farm, built long after the name was first recorded, and only the grandest structure for a century or so.

gardener-joe · February 2012

Beware! Hinshelwood is sometimes failible ... e.g. placing (wrongly) some parts of Mount Pleasant Crescent in Islington, despite suggesting (correctly) elsewhere in the same text that these are in Haringey. At best this is Indicative of some poor editing and at worst indicates an insecure grasp of the material he is using .... compensated to some degree by the attractive and confident style of writing. However, this book is readily available and its sale supports our local history society; it provides a good-enough summary overview of the area's history - more is right than is wrong - with a pleasing smattering of entertaining vignettes. But for safety this book should be read alongside more established (admittedly more dry) scholarly texts such as the Victoria County History series.

wisteria53 · February 2012

Previous discussions about old maps [Andy, please note that search doesn't work as well as it used to - it was almost impossible to find these links!] http://www.stroudgreen.org/discussion/781/old-maps/ http://www.stroudgreen.org/discussion/1318/old-maps/http://www.stroudgreen.org/discussion/2252/old-stroud-green/P ;

dion · February 2012

from a parking restriction perspective, some parts of mount pleasant crescent are in islington, and some in haringey. i know. i got a ticket for being on the wrong side of the road near the larrick

Arkady · February 2012

Some parts of MPC *are* in Islington: http://www.neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk/dissemination/LeadBoundaryViewerSettings.do?colOpt=0&CCa1=0&CCa2=0&CCa3=0&CCa4=0&CCa5=0&CCa6=0&CCa7=0&CCa8=0&CCb1=1&CCb2=1&CCb3=1&CCb4=1&CCb5=1&CCb6=1&CCb7=1&CCb8=1&CCc1=2&CCc2=2&CCd1=5&CCd2=5&CCd3=5&CCd4=5&CCe1=12&CCe2=12&CCf1=3&Lg1=sTrue&CCg1=6&CCg2=6&CCg3=6&CCg4=6&CCg5=6&CCg6=6&CCg7=6&CCg8=6&CCh1=4&CCh2=4&CCh3=4&Li1=sTrue&CCi1=8&CCi2=8&CCi3=8&CCi4=8&CCi5=8&CCi6=8&CCi7=8&CCi8=8&CCj1=7&CCk1=10&CCl1=13&CCm1=19&CCn1=11&mapBGShown=on&mapInCol=on&mapAction=zoomIn&mapX=&mapY=&mapScale=5010&envelope=530195.695230508:187115.977931865:531215.052792752:188009.407056641&mapWidth=769&mapHeight=674&rightTabWidth=36&xW=1280&xH=1024&panDir=0&showLabels=true&colOpt=0&search=&bCount=2&Bg1=true&Bi1=true&exp0=false&exp1=false&exp2=false&exp3=false&exp4=false&exp5=false&exp6=false&exp7=false&exp8=false&exp9=false&exp10=false&exp11=false&exp12=false&exp13=false

Arkady · February 2012

The boundary has shifted slightly over time as it has been defined more narrowly. The surviving boundary markers are sometimes well inside the modern boundary. I don't have the book hand, but I think that Hinshelwood imples that Stapleton Hall (and all of SG) was once defined as being in Islington following a court case over tax revenues, but it is now just inside Haringey.

ADGS · February 2012

Misscara - how about Brownswood Park Road, or is that another example of the area being named for the road? And not that it's much of a road, but I'd definitely count Finsbury Park Road as being in Finsbury Park area, even if it's more named for leading to the park proper.

Arkady · February 2012

http://batchgeo.com/map/stroudgreensurvey So that was much more difficult and time-consuming to achieve than I thought, but hey here it is. I've set the submissions to 'cluster' when you're zoomed out, which gives an interesting overview. If you zoom in you can no longer see multiple submissions in the same post code. If you click on the no/not sure submissions you will be able to see any alternative(s) given. You may also wish to have a look at this map that I have compiled of Neighbourhood Forum initiatives in the area, along with *tentative* borders: http://g.co/maps/4b37c. I have some thoughts of my own about appropriate adjustments that might be made in light of these results, but would welcome any comments people might have before taking anything further.

Mirandola · February 2012

@Arkady,<div> Thank you for this. Even from my Tollington-supporting perspective I think there's a case for extending SG to the Hornsey Road boundary. </div>

Arkady · February 2012

Indeed. I think it makes sense to bring the boundary up to the Hornsey Road, but to run east of it rather than down the centre. We ought to avoid adminstratively dividing the road, and creating the same problem for it that we are trying to resolve on the Stroud Green Road. On the indicative map I have run the border along the edge of the Victorian housing stock line, to leave Hornsey Rd as a linear redevelopment zone outside of SG's scope. Interestingly I note that this matches the N4 boundary very closely. The same goes for the southern boundary with Finsbury Park. To my mind the biggest outstanding question is whether to incorporate the area between Hanley Rd and the railway. We had no submissions from there, and it's without the N4 boundary. On the other hand the railway might make a more natural boundary.

Arkady · February 2012

I'm sure I recall at least one submission on Stapleton Hall Road which seems to be missing. Perhaps I misrecall. Anyone think their submission is missing?

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10-Second Stroud Green Survey!

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