New Development Stroud Green Road

ActionVerb · November 2010

Andy, I do like that idea, apart from maybe step 3, which verges on the extreme of the already silly version of this government's localism agenda. Unfortunately though, given the Big Society+Small Government agenda, we're unlikely to see such initiatives any time soon.

Arkady · November 2010

I liked that idea Andy. Incidentally, for discretion I sometimes copy and paste threads from SG.org into Word, and am always amused to see that your posts are always adorned with the hidden prefix ‘We are Ninja’. I would imagine that no-one else knows what I am on about, and will now assume I’m mad. But try it for yourself, go on.

andy · November 2010

we are, indeed, ninja

andy · November 2010

@actionverb - I would look at the public choice bit as i) some market research to ensure the shops that opened get used and ii) a chance to build up some pre-launch customer loyalty. It's not about the public policy angle as much as it is about customer research.

Arkady · November 2010

@andy – I was also amused to see that a Foursquare tip left against the entry for Stroud Green Road – ‘true locals use stroudgreen.org’. Very droll.

Mirandola · November 2010

@andy - supposing someone were to pick up your idea, what would they do?

That's not meant to be a sarky question, more a practical one. Could they petition the council? And if so how?

andy · November 2010

The decision-makers here are the councils on either side of the road. So I would go to them first. Maybe Cllrs on the planning committee. There are lots of co-ordinating bodies about, but my guess is that would be more effective to take it on yourself with the support of the councillors who could find a funding pot or make the decision to waive rents/rates etc. It would be easy to use this site to gather support, run any competition and raise awareness. The local papers would also be all over this story if someone pushed it on.

Reg · November 2010

The problem is that the local authority is statutorily obliged to get the best financial return on it's property. The place I contract to would like to do something more enlightened with it's stock but has it's hands tied. Incidentally, with the cuts facing them the authorities will be increasingly motivated to go for the money. There might be an angle which involves taking on empty space for free, for relatively short periods, in order to cover the rates. Perhaps the council could be encouraged to recognise the benefits and should therefore pay the equivalent of empty, rather than full, rates?

sincers · November 2010

It came in for s bit of stick the other day, but the Channel 4 programme, "Britain's Trillion Dollar Horror" echos in many of the threads where we discuss the difficulties in getting small enterprise to work. The burden of tax, rent & rates etc. is crippling SME's and is forcing many closures. That's why we have homogeneous high streets. @Misscara, I wish you luck with opening a retail joint, but creating a business model that works is not enough these days. You have to be unique, high volume, high margin, well marketed, well positioned, with quality reliable suppliers to mix it with the big boys. There's little incentive to start a business if there's no profit in it. That's why we're so badly skewed to the public sector, because the private sector isn't allowed to thrive...unless you're Tescos and the like.

andy · November 2010

@Reg wouldn't be a hard business case to make with an empty property. Would you rather 65% of something or 100% of nothing?

ADGS · November 2010

Yes, poor ickle private sector, getting billions of dollars of public money in bailouts and then still being able to pay huge CEO wages and bonuses. However does it manage?
(I appreciate that life can be hard for small businesses, but too often that argument is used as a cloak for yet more land grabs by megacorps which are already all too able to dictate terms to the government)

andy · November 2010

Remarkably stupid post.

andy · November 2010

I hear that the owner of the wig shop only has to snap his fingers and he gets a meeting with David Cameron. The bloke who owned Home was given personal assurances by George Osborne that he would come round and make the Treasury buy a load of tablemats. Describing the 'private sector' as a single thing is just stupid, I'm afraid.

dorothy · November 2010

I think Reg is right. Local authorities are very rarely entrepreneurial in that way, although it makes sense to the rest of us. Property departments are relunctant to waive rent, rates or service charges for fear of setting a precedent, going against their own polices, or having a system that isn't transparent. I've known schemes where a full market rent etc is charged but SME's can claim grants back to pay for rent to the relevant sponsoring department, but that's quite bureaucratic, and there would be a lot of hurdles to get through to get anything like £100,000 per shop out of a council. Council's I've worked for, don't like committing themselves for more than one year either. I quite like the way Urban Space Management work <http://www.urbanspace.com/>; I'm not sure if they are still doing it, but they did run a scheme whereby they would let out shops and empty units to small enterprises and would also apply for various bits of funding to subsidise rents as well as doing business support type stuff. I think they also did this on behalf of Councils. It's easier for a local authority to work through a third party on this sort of thing. There's less money around now though. London was awash with this sort of funding a few years ago, and I think there've been some wasted opportunities. I was surprised when Stroud Green was part of the Single Regeneration Scheme that more wasn't done then to regenerate Stroud Green Road. I know they gave some grants, but I think they were very small, and tended to support people with businesses they were running from home. If Sainsburys open, I wonder if all those little shops at that end will close or just end up selling very, very cheap booze and porn magazines.

Arkady · November 2010

I just changed my mind about the prospective Sainsburys.

David · November 2010

I used to live in King's Cross near the canal. Before the big redevelopment the first thing they put in was a Tesco's at the bottom of Caledonian Road. I always feared for the quite wonderful Italian deli that suddenly found itself sitting directly opposite. I've not been down there the last year I suppose, but it looked like it was doing just fine and perhaps even benefited from the passing trade. This is speculation obviously, but I'm thinking the nature of a metro supermarket mostly covering essentials only complimented the specialist store as opposed to the usual killing of a small general store. It's not always just the socially undesirable bits the big chains won't touch that get left.

ADGS · November 2010

Andy - agreed, but I've seen one too many CBI propaganda rants using the SME bit to play on the heartstrings of the press and public. And when that sort of rhetoric is paired with the suggestion of an over-mighty public sector which is supposedly somehow responsible for the country's ills, well, the red mist descends.

Reg · November 2010

Andy, by definition 65% of something implies that 100% is achievable. And Dorothy is right, it would set a precedent on rent reviews. You're better off focusing on the private sector landlords with empty units. I know some of the guys at USM and love what they do but it takes time and in the past they have been supported by LDA grants which have dried up. P.S what is happening to the charity shop opp little sainsburys on SGR?

ADGS · November 2010

Being refurbished. They've already started putting some of the stock back in, the bookshelves and one rail of clothing were up last time I went past.

JoeV · November 2010

Isn’t it more than a local authority trying for the best financial return on its properties? I’m not an expert in this area but can a Council or local authority legally favour one business over another? I understand as landlord, a Council has a two-fold responsibility to earn a return on the properties it owns and to encourage business but can they discriminate against big business by waiving the rents, rates or service charges for a small one? Big businesses pay taxes too and though I personally would like to see a greater mix shops I’m not convinced a Council is the best organisation to do this. In the case of SGR the problem is does the street need re-generation? I do not see a problem with empty store fronts, in fact it looks like the Vista development has a tenant interested and the building isn’t even finished.

Ian · February 2011

The other thing I noticed about the Vista development apart from the height was the fact that they are putting timber roofing beams in place. I haven't seen a building like that with a wooden framed roof for ages. Just assumed it to be a flat roof steel and concrete framed building as per usual . Looks quite an interesting design.

Arkady · February 2011

This morning I noticed - to my suprise and pleasure - that I can see the beautiful curved wooden gables from my room on Mount View Road. Through binoculars I could even see a man in hi-vis clambouring around. I lines up with the Shard too.

Arkady · February 2011

You might like to see a (sadly slightly blurry) picture. The gables are just to the right of one of the chimneys. Bonus points to anyone who spots St Pauls. <http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/ae221/Redarkady/DSC00207.jpg>;

Donna · March 2011

I like the ladder stair system they've got in place. Is it definitely going to be a Sainsbury's then?

emine · April 2011

Anyone else think [these prices](http://www.findaproperty.com/displayprop.aspx?edid=00&salerent=0&pid=8577051) are a bit optimistic? As is the July completion date perhaps...

andy · April 2011

@emine - I remember saying that about a new development of 2 bed flats on Stoke Newington High Street that were for sale for what I considered to be the then extortionate price of £98,000....

Ian · April 2011

Looks about right to me. I sold my 1 bed in the new development off Green Lanes - a much worse location - for 200k 5 years ago.

sincers · April 2011

jurin' the war, Andy?

Arkady · April 2011

It's hard to tell about the completion date as the whole structure is under wraps. The ground floor is still very much a worksite, but for all we know they could be working on final fix* on the apartments as we speak. A *Oh yes, I've seen Grand Designs.

sincers · April 2011

After overcoming huge problems: a contractor going bust, the site lying ideal for almost a year, a community up in arms, this project has been a triumph of determination over adversity.* *me too

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