Any fiction writers around?

miss annie · February 2012

Much as it grieves me to say it, as someone who works in a bookshop and loves the physical book, Kindle seems brilliant for self publishing, it's a fantastic way to get your work out to a huge audience.Unfortunately, when someone comes to the bookshop and says that they self publish it always makes booksellers think that there's a good reason why publishers turned them down. I know that J.K. Rowling was turned down by almost everyone but she did get signed eventually. Do you all know about this <a href="http://www.faberacademy.co.uk/Public/Home.aspx">http://www.faberacademy.co.uk/Public/Home.aspx</a>One of our 2011 bestsellers - S.J. Watson's Before I Go To Sleep was written by someone who attended. He's one of my customers and he says it's a fantastic programme.

chrisn4 · February 2012

"it always makes me think that there is a good reason why publishers turned them down" isnt that adding 2 and 2 together and making 5 why would you always think that? why would you think that there is a good reason why publishers turned them down?without knowning what is going on? the publishers might have bad judgement wasnt loads of authors turned down by publishers who then go on to be very good was charles dickens turned down by pubishers or magazines? his novels serialised in magazines

chrisn4 · February 2012

google "did charles dickens get turned down by publishers" google "why publishers wont publish some books" from the net Have you ever met any of these literary agents? I have and I can tell you that they are all creeps, every single one of them. I bet that they’ve never read a single proper book in their life. They probably wouldn’t even know what a good book is. What they look out for is controversy and filth that are considered commercial nowadays. They turn down good writers if they don’t include enough swearing, explicit sex scenes or graphic violence into their works. The whole publishing industry has turned against good writers. It’s all about profit now. Go to any large bookstore and check what they have on the bestsellers shelves. It’s all crap, yes, all of it. Useless cookery books, biographies and autobiographies of non-entities, hideous chick-lit books with clumsy pornography inserted into them – these chick-list can’t even describe a shag properly – thrillers without a decent plot, idiotic tales about bloodthirsty psychopaths and cannibals, absurd sex manuals, blatantly biased historical insights and countless children’s books about meaningless adventures of wizards and witches with not a single good message in them. Publishers of today will be crucified in the not so distant future for what they bringing out now. There must be a huge section in hell where they’ll be roasted, along with lawyers and bankers.

chrisn4 · February 2012

from the net R.F.Wilson writes from London: I bet Charles Dickens would have had a tough time getting his books published these days. Probably would have died in obscurity, rejected by literary agents who now represent the publishers to make life easier for them. I can just see some slimy looking individual telling Dickens: ‘Yeeees, looked at your Oliver Twist. Didn’t grab me, to be honest. The plot is not all that great. You could have made that kid Oliver a rent boy or make him bang his own sister or something, to make it all look more lifelike. But no, not one bouncy penis mentioned and no anal sex. Sorry mate, it’s not for my publishers, not commercial enough.’

chrisn4 · February 2012

from the net No one is saying that trash-lit titles were not published in the past. But the difference was that a large proportion of the reading public had enough taste to distinguish good books from bad. That was why most classical writers became bestselling authors during their lifetime. Most of the Dickens’s books were instant bestsellers in his time. Nowadays most of the people would not even be able to read his books. They would be too boring for them, too complicated and too unexciting. Not enough sex, not enough violence for their taste. The tastes of the ‘reading public’ have become so low that second and third-rate authors become ‘living classics’ just because they land on the bestselling shelves. You open their books and you can see from page one that the authors struggle with stringing sentences together. Throbbing penises and slurping vaginas and F-words are introduced all over the place to lure the unsophisticated lot into reading on. But even the pornography does not really make any sense and is done with no imagination. It is no secret that large <A class=cm_word href="http://it.ph.affinity.com/ctrack0.php?&cmpubid=mek42&cmskps=&cmsite=www.stirringtroubleinternationally.com&cmchannelid=&cmurl=http://www.stirringtroubleinternationally.com/2011/12/11/dickens/&cmref=http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=why+didnt+charles+dickens+get+published&source=web&cd=12&ved=0CHYQFjAL&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stirringtroubleinternationally.com%2F2011%2F12%2F11%2Fdickens%2F&ei=zpAyT4mBK5KS8gPf1pn1Bg&usg=AFQjCNGgULEUmAOqliFcyW8MNU1az6fdUw&cmoe=google&cmoq=why didnt charles dickens get published&cmua=Mozilla/4.0 (compatible%3B%20MSIE%208.0%3B%20Windows%20NT%206.0%3B%20Trident%2F4.0%3B%20GTB7.2%3B%20SLCC1%3B%20.NET%20CLR%202.0.50727%3B%20.NET%20CLR%203.5.30729%3B%20.NET%20CLR%203.0.30618%3B%20.NET4.0C)&cmss=1024x640&cmvp=1007x502&cmvd=1024640000&cmvc=b049d09c6cc91074a36cdf866a76011d&cmtitle=Charles%20Dickens%3F%20Wouldn%E2%80%99t%20Get%20A%20Single%20Book%20Published%20These%20Days%20%7C%20Stirring%20Trouble%20Internationally%20-%20A%20humorous%20take%20on%20news%20and%20current%20affairs%20%7C%20Stirring%20Trouble%20Internationally%20provides%20an%20witty%2C%20alternative%20viewpoint%20on%20todays%20news%20stories%20and%20current%20affairs.%20Funny%2C%20informative%2C%20and%20occasionally%20controversial.&rnd=1328714057098&q=bookstores&at=XS&cmip=19&cmis=19&cmid=5&cmdt=p" target=_blank>bookstores</A> are paid by publishers to place their titles on the bestsellers’ shelves. And yet people still fall for that trick and buy these books. Do they actually read them? I very much doubt it.

chrisn4 · February 2012

the booksellers are paid by publishers to put the books in the shop window and bestseller's shelves,tricking the public into thinking that the books are any good when they maybe trash.Just a money deal between bookshops n publishers

miss annie · February 2012

Chris, this no longer happens in our bookshops.It used to be the case but your internet source is about two years behind the times. I choose the books that go in our windows myself. No one pays to be on the tables, on the shelves or anywhere else in our bookshop. It maybe the case with indies, I don't know.

chrisn4 · February 2012

Just before Christmas in 1843, a debt-ridden and dispirited Charles Dickens wrote a small book he hoped would keep his creditors at bay. His publisher turned it down, so Dickens used what little money he had to put out A Christmas Carol himself. He worried it might be the end of his career as a novelist. miss annie - are you saying waterstones bookshop dont take money off publishers to advertise their books in waterstones book shop? what about other big bookshop chains - are you saying they dont take money off publishers to put their books in the shop window? people naturally think that books in bookshop windows are bestsellers etc - not just books that publishers want to promote

chrisn4 · February 2012

im sure i read somewhere that martin amis had huge amounts of money spent by his publishers advertising his books in many different ways via bookshops and media...perhaps others can comment on this..which lead to great sales some other daft things happen like in about 1988 martin amis's novel called "london fields" did not win the award (booker prize) that year as it is said a few feminists on the judging panel said his characters in the novel were sexist or misogynist or something that feminsts dont approve of politically so i think they gave the prize to ben okri his novel the famished rd...if this is true then some daft feminists who dont realise that martin amis novels are a satire and so characters are grotesque exagerated versions of the way some men think....strange if nutty feminists on a mission to destroy anyone who creates characters in fiction that dont fit their political outlook on life made amis's book loose...

miss annie · February 2012

I can't speak for Smith's etc. but no, publishers don't pay to get into our windows.I choose the books that go in our windows myself. I choose them based on what's been in the news, what's been selling well in our branch, Sunday paper reviews, local authors, things customer have been asking about, what's been on Radio 4 and sometimes just because I like them or because the cover is pretty. For example in our last 'Books I always meant to read' window we had Year of the Hare, Don Quixote, In Cold Blood, Periera Maintains and For Esme with Love and Squalor amongst others. Each branch will have a different selection of books in the window although some things which are national bestsellers - Caitlin Moran, Before I Go To Sleep, etc . will probably pop up everywhere. Our chart in the shop is also just a chart of the bestsellers in our shop. Julian Barnes has been in the top five since it was published based on the fact that we've sold shedloads and our customers love it. Likewise our recommends - one of my current ones is The Final Confession of Mabel Stark - I doubt you'll see that on the recommends shelf in another branch.

miss annie · February 2012

I've met Martin Amis. That's the reason I don't like him.

chrisn4 · February 2012

miss annie - what about those cardboard cut out adverts that stand next to new books in bookshops that advertise new books.say with a picture of the book of the authour or a picture of the book standing about six foot tall in the bookshop that grabs your attention.arent these adverts in the book shop paid for by the publisher or cardboard adverts in the shop window paid for by publishers? this gives new books that might be no good an advantage paid for by publishers surely? or adverts for books in newspapers or other adverts - these paid for by publishers to flog a book.giving a book that maybe no good but by a well known authour publicity i think martin amis book called "yellow dog" which was described as "not no where to look bad" by a critic ...i wonder how much money bookshops took from publishers to flog that to the public based on martin amis name. perhaps nepotism plays a part in what book publishers buy ...for example martin amis's first book the rachel papers did not make amis any money for him but won an award ...i wonder if he would have got his book published if his dad was not famous... how many martin amis novels have been any good recently ? they always seem to be in the shop window...

chrisn4 · February 2012

why dont you like martin amis , miss annie? was he rude? i saw his new biography in shop windows recently...it had many bad reviews but sold well i think... i think martin amis wanted some control over the contents of the biography in return for his cooperation in interviews for the book...

miss annie · February 2012

We don't use those cardboard cutouts of people gurning. The publishers will send them if shops ask for them, I got an Alan Partridge one for a pal's birthday. Posters in our windows don't have pictures of books on - they just have messages, like Valentine's Day with an Emily Bronte quote. Publishers have no input, some book chains may get publishers to pay, I don't know.

Idoru · February 2012

Funny how in between miss annie posting and chrisn4 quoting her 'booksellers' somehow became 'me'. miss a didn't actually say that she personally questions why self-published writers were turned down, only that such questioning happens.

chrisn4 · February 2012

miss annie says she is a bookseller so she wrote "it always makes booksellers think" - so if it always makes booksellers think then it must make miss annie think ie personally question why self published writers were turned down ps not off to dixie chicken in sg rd it looks awfull and dare i say it,very common....lowering the tone in sg rd... too many betting shops tooo - perhaps someone can start a thread to explain why we need so many dreadfully common shops and why the council cant ban them...even soba is turning into a fish n chip shop / kebab house...dreadfull really im afraid

Stella · February 2012

People get turned down by agents for various reasons. Yes, often it's because the book is not up to scratch, often it's the case of 'not commercial enough'. Agents and editors are only humans. Annie, the books you choose to put in the window -- I assume they are your choice, you liked them enough to recommend them. I walk by, buy your recommendation and hate the book. So why do you love it and I don't? It's a matter of taste. Amanda Hocking sold millions, I read My Blood Approves and it didn't touch me one bit. She got signed with a big publisher. Before she became so succesful she was turned down for years and years. So, why was she turned down? I can get rather hot-headed when I hear people sticking to the same ol' stigma. Self-published authors are just not worth anything. Poor sods. Well, there's plenty of rubbish on the shelves, published by one of the big six, or successful Indie publishers. The only thing I really agree on is that most self-published books are in dire need of an editor and proof-reader.

chrisn4 · February 2012

well said Ms Artois...

Stella · February 2012

Deleuze, please :-) lol

miss annie · February 2012

Hi StellaThe books go in the windows for all the reasons listed above, my personal reading preference accounts for about 10%. The recommends bay is inside the shop. I suppose I imagine that customers will have a look at the recommends, see what jumps out at them, have a good read of the back cover to see if it's their sort of thing and/or have a chat with the person who recommended it, or read a few pages to find out more. I wouldn't expect that anyone would just pick up a book and buy it without at least reading a couple of pages to see if the style was to their taste. We have *a lot* of regular customers in every dept. who trust our recommendations and consistently choose their books from them or from our feature tables like our cult fiction table, novels in translation table, God debate table etc. We ask them to let us know if they liked it and what they thought about it, via twitter, email, or in person. Haven't had any complaints yet! Sometimes we ask customers and local authors to write recommendations for books they've enjoyed too. Look out for a selection recommended by Nick Hornby - coming soon.One of the best things about working in or shopping in a real, physical bookshop is that you can have a jolly good chat or debate about books all day long with a massive variety of people. It's brilliant. There is a lot on the shelves that I wouldn't read but whether or not it's rubbish is subjective surely? And as to why books get turned down and then suddenly picked up seems to be purely based on a book being succesful and then publishers searching for anything and everything similar. Scandi crime is now a massive genre due to the popularity of Stieg Larsson's books opening the floodgates. Boy Called It paved the way for endless 'misery memoirs, and the new craze is fiction which reads like a quirky indie film or a Tim Burton movie. There are a few of those coming for the spring.

Stella · February 2012

Hi, Annie I'm not saying that your taste is worth nothing and that you dictate your customers what to read. Now on Amazon you can follow the recommendations on the forum, you can read the blurb (equivalent to the back of the book) and you can even look inside and read a few pages. There, you buy the book and are still disappointed. I did the same in books shops and still got disappointed. By the way, Nick Hornby whom I love, endorsed the bestselling novel One Day. I hate that book with a passion. My friend trusts my taste normally. Everything I loved, she'll at least like a lot, too. But just because I know what some of my people like to read, doesn't mean I make the right decision as an editor. I know a person(self-published) who sold a lot of books and people are raving about her books on the Amazon forum. I tried to read two of her books: I hate her voice, don't like her style. If I were an editor of a publishing house, I wouldn't take her on. Yet, she's successful. I'm wrong, the public is right.

Idoru · February 2012

Seriously impressed at the quality of the fiction I've read in advance of Sunday's meet!

miss annie · February 2012

@Stella<;/p>Are you the same Stella that is no.2 in the e-books download chart, and did you have a book launch at Daunt's? If so, well done you!

Stella · February 2012

No, I'm the Stella who was #3 ebook humour charts a few weeks back. ;-) I didn't have an official book launch yet. That's probably going to happen some time this year. If I ever get around to format the books for print.

miss annie · February 2012

Well done you anyway! We do book launches in our shop, venue is free you just need to provide drink. Let me know if you're keen.

Stella · February 2012

I'd love to. As long as I don't have to read anything. But even for that I might have a solution ;-) Would probably wet myself and stammer incoherently, but once I start talking about my books I'll never stop anyway. See, you will regret to have made this offer...

Stella · February 2012

To clarify: I'm a terrible read-out-loud reader. Just can't do it. Not one bit, even not with practiced material.

Mirandola · February 2012

@Stella,<div> </div><div>I was awful at it too until someone told me to concentrate on saying all the unimportant words clearly (the ands, its, thes and all that) and then miraculously everything took care of itself. </div>

Stella · February 2012

I have no idea what I can't do it, I read all my stuff aloud, here, at home, and it can get rather frustrating when I overread whole words. My mind refuses to read what's there and instead forces me to say what it thinks is there. When it's really bad, I turn into one of those computer voices, reading without any emotion, that's often the only way I can get through a few pages. Might have to do with my ADHD. Plus, I wrote the stuff, which makes it even worse. I sometimes feel I read better when I don't know the text at all.

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