Primary School nightmare

janez

Idoru, it is again an anecdotal evidence and an isolated case, which proves nothing. One of my friends is a severe dyslexic, and his private school shoot him in a Russell Group uni. Is it a proof of ultimate supremacy of private schools? For him and his family the answer is yes, for me their way of thinking is not scientific.<div><br></div><div><span style="font-family: 'lucida grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; line-height: 20px; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">"It all depends on your own child."</span></div><div><span style="font-family: 'lucida grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; line-height: 20px; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><br></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><font face="'lucida grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif"><span style="line-height: 20px;">It is the last thing I would expect from the school - to leave everything in dependence on the child. "The child is not doing well? Oh, that's the child's own problems - everything depends on him/her." </span></font></div><div style="text-align: left;"><font face="'lucida grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif"><span style="line-height: 20px;"><br></span></font></div><div style="text-align: left;"><font face="'lucida grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif"><span style="line-height: 20px;">Also, "all depends on the child" is deeply offensive to all teachers, because it diminishes their work and efforts, making no difference between a good and a failing teacher.</span></font></div>

miss annie

<p>@janez<;/p><p>I just want to start by saying that I don't expect you to take this on board and I don't expect this to change your thinking at all. </p><p>Idoru's experience is pretty much identical to most people I know. Most of my friends and peers went to average or less than average schools -  in the 70's/80's there wasn't much else unless you wanted to pay, Helicopter parents were few and far between where I grew up. Almost everyone went on to University, including some to Oxbridge and one to Harvard, or straight into good jobs. I have a pal who went to a North London school that has since been closed down who now earns an astronomical salary in the city, one that was expelled from a craphole at 15 and now runs an extraordinarily successful business and one that barely attended an awful school and is now living in L.A. and currently designing Robert Downey Jr's house. Most, like Idoru are doing well. I know only two people who went to 'good', high performing schools. One now works in a shop, one has used none of her good education in a work place and has spent her whole adult life as a stay at home mum.</p><p>I suppose that what I'm saying is not that it's not important to choose a brilliant school, but that if you don't get into the perfect school it is still possible and indeed quite normal to still do well and acheive whatever you want in life.</p><p> </p>

janez

<span style="font-family: 'lucida grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; line-height: 20px; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">"If he or she is bright and motivated, they will do brilliantly at IAMS."</span><div><div style="text-align: left;"><font face="'lucida grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif"><span style="line-height: 20px;"><br></span></font></div><div style="text-align: left;"><font face="'lucida grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif"><span style="line-height: 20px;">This is not entirely true (without any reference to IAMS). I already wrote about studies showing that higher % of bright children, who are at the top after primary, stay at the top </span></font><span style="font-family: 'lucida grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; line-height: 20px; ">by GCSEs</span><span style="line-height: 20px; font-family: 'lucida grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; "> in private schools than in state ones (no such trend for Six form, though). Schools do make difference, for bright children as well. (Unschooling also makes difference, but it is a separate topic).</span></div></div>

janez

Annie, you do not need to change my way of thinking because I agree with all you said - it does not contradict my view at all. <div><br><div>It is a hyperbolic example, but loads of smokers live long lives. There are 90+ year old heroin users. The thing is, we can not count only positive examples, it is not scientific.<div><div><div><br></div><div>There is no question that a child <b>may do well </b>after a poor school. The question is that a good school boosts probability that a child <b>will do well</b>. </div></div></div></div></div>

Bridget J

In case you havent seen it:<div><br></div><div>Well done to St Aloysius! As good results as Fortismere I think!</div><div><br></div><div>Not all about exams I didnt go brilliantly in my O'Levels first go!<br><div><br><div>http://www.islingtongazette.co.uk/news/poor_exam_results_at_islington_schools_revealed_in_league_tables_1_1196374</div></div></div>;

janez

<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 18px; text-align: left; ">"Islington had the worst average GCSE grades in London". I think Islington pot may stop calling Hackney kettle black.</span><div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 18px; text-align: left; "><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 18px; text-align: left; ">Interesting that Academies landed at the polar ends of the range, the best and the worst.</span></div>

boxrunner

@Sweetpea, many thanks for the post, really interested to read it.  I wasn't aware of the Hackney/Islington & Haringey think so very useful to have that perspective from you.  Also heartened to read your second post and putting academic achievement into a wider (social and time) context.  Many thanks for both of those.<br>

Sweetpea

<p class="MsoNormal">Lots of interesting points made here,</p><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; "> @Janez ;  "It all depends on your own child."</span> -  look at the context of that sentence in my original post ( I hope)  . I  certainly didn’t mean it was all up to the child as to whether they succeed, (i.e. and not the teachers), I meant choosing a school should take into account the strengths , needs and personality of the child.  ( ideally, I do realise that choice is illusory) .  I meant that you should look at your child and make sure the school understands what their needs, strengths and difficulties are, whatever their IQ or talents.   I suppose I was also appealing to those parents who think that their child is too bright for a school in a neighbourhood like <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placename w:st="on">Finsbury</st1:placename> <st1:placetype w:st="on">Park</st1:placetype></st1:place>.</p><p class="MsoNormal">As to the Arts and Media bias, or any specialism for that matter, I don’t think this is important.  My own personal perspective is that the specialist path was one that schools had to go down to get the extra cash that was going round at the time.   (cynical) . In the case of A and M , it means younger pupil have one lesson of Art, Music, Dance, Media and Drama per week, all of which are fun and good for all children for building up confidence, technical and presentation skills, whether or not the child has any talent. Most schools teach these anyway but maybe incorporated into other lessons.  ( e.g. Drama inside English, Dance inside PE) It also means that teachers are encouraged to use multi media methods across the curriculum.  ( but I think all good teachers do that whatever schools they are at. )</p><p class="MsoNormal">It doesn’t mean any less Science, Maths English technology PE etc.</p><p class="MsoNormal">Ali , where do get the information you quote that <span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; "> 65%  of pupils from schools in Muswell Hill  get to a Russell group university. ?  I think you are confusing the statistic about 5 good A-C GCSEs with the eventual destination of the pupils after 6^th form.  ( IAMS is only an 11-16 school)  This is nonsense, with respect..  as far as I know there isn’t any published data about the university destinations  of the pupils from any  school.  I was just describing what I know about the destinations of some of my ex pupils. The pupils from IAMS often go on to do their A levels in 6^th forms in Muswell Hill, including Fortismere and Woodhouse ( Barnet) , as well as Islington 6^th form. So the destination statistics for those institutions would have to credit IAMS for some of their pupils.    But there are none officially, although Islington write to us every year and let us know how well our pupils did at A level and what university places they have got.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal">I’m also not sure you understand about Russell group and non Russell group.  ( with respect)  There is snobbery about these just as there is about schools. For the record my daughter got into a ( top) Russell group Uni having “failed” GCSE Science and Maths – D grades).  i.e. she wouldn’t have qualified for the new eBAC , although she did well in French English History etc. Enlightened admission tutors at Kings. Other things counted.</p><p class="MsoNormal">There is also anecdotal evidence that with the “top” universities being pressured to make their admissions more egalitarian and meretricious, they may favour candidates from ordinary comps rather than from high achieving schools!   ( I said may) . So as others have noted, buying a place in a “better” school, may not have the desired effect.  A lot of it all is luck, self confidence and learning to deal with new and sometimes tough environments. </p>

Ali

<P>Sweetpea</P> <P>Checked the data and I have a correction to what I said above</P> <P>At Fortismere  aprox 40 % go to Russell Group, approx 25% go to other Unis</P> <P>25% of those studied Sciences or Maths/computing</P> <P>12% Humanities</P> <P>18% Business</P> <P>12% Arts</P> <P>On Y 11 entry</P> <P> 49% of he kids where  from Forismere  no mention of kids from IAMS.</P> <P>in year 7 there was 0.2 % from St Adains and nothing else from around here which is what you would expect</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

Sweetpea

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"> Point taken. Correction to what I said . The pupils from IAMS ( and any other school ) can  join Fortismere in the sixth form, after GCSEs. I got that wrong.  The schools that have 6th forms accept pupils from any other schools, there's a lot of changing around then.  </font><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">There is no data on where the pupils go to university from schools that don't have 6th forms.  </font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">I suggested to the previous Head that he should track his pupils, but he fobbed me off. Now he is gone, perhaps I'll suggest it again to the new Head and Governors. I think it should be publishable, and would be good information for parents to have, although probably harder to find out the information now that Connexions has almost disappeared. </font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div>

Siolae

<P>@ Sweetpea, concur with all your postings. </P> <P> It is virtually impossible for schools without a 6th form to track where students go to tertiary education as they are reliant on the 6th forms supplying that information.  Most of Islington's secondaries do not have a 6th form as we have a large borough 6th form at City and Islington. Students from Islington schools go to 6th forms across multiple London boroughs and further afield so the reality is accurate comparative data will never be available.</P>

janez

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">Sweetpea, talking about "All depends on the child, a bright child will </span>succeed everywhere", people are falling prey to one common fallacy. They suggest that Their Child is bright. Of course, how can it be different? They cook sushi, wear ironic glasses, read Murakami - how Their Child may be mediocre? You know, I never met more parents of exceptional individuals, accomplished in arts and sciences, living in harmony with world and people, caring about environment and community, enjoying deep relationships and building galloping careers in the areas of their choice, so, I never met more parents of such wonderful rounded people than among parents of 1-year-olds. <o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">Then reality starts to kick in, and a proud parent discovers that there is no direct impact of mammy’s P60 or daddy’s vinyl collection on the child’s brightness. No “I am white, educated and employed, job done, the child is bright”. And that the only privilege of parental educational level and consecutive salary size is an ability to contribute to development of your normal (meaning: average) child. This puts all the other potential contributors into a slightly different perspective, and “any school is ok” approach fades away. <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">On a child, being too bright for a school with low, though easily explainable, exam results. There is plenty of stats showing that schooling pulls weak children up (which is great), and pulls the strong down (which is less great). This is, by the way, one of the arguments of unschoolers. So, the bottom is still at the bottom, but doing better, that without school. The top is still at the top, but doing less than full capacity. Talking about a well/not that well performing schools, many parents may prefer a child being dragged up in a school, rather than pulled down. Although, other parents may prefer their Child to be a superstar in IAMS, rather in bottom third in Latymer.  <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">On specialism bias. I would better <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jun/15/a-level-subjects-preferred-by-universities-by-private-school-and-comprehensive">quote</a>:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:13.5pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333">Teenagers at comprehensives are studying "low quality" subjects that will prevent them gaining a place at top universities – unlike their peers at private and grammar schools, according to an MP.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: 13.5pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; "><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333">…<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:13.5pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333">She found students at private schools were twice more likely than their peers in comprehensives to take maths, physics and chemistry A-level and three times more likely to take foreign languages.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: 13.5pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; "><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333">Students at comprehensives were seven times more likely than their peers in private schools to take media studies.Twice the number of pupils at private schools take three<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span> <span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; ">A-levels</span> <span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333">that are looked upon particularly favourably by the most academically selective universities.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:13.5pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:13.5pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333">And <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/aug/20/a-level-subjects-blacklist-claim">one more</a>:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:13.5pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p style="margin-top:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:9.75pt;margin-left: 0cm;line-height:13.5pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333">The country's top universities have been called on to come clean about an unofficial list or lists of "banned" A-level subjects that may have prevented tens of thousands of state school pupils getting on to degree courses.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 9.75pt; margin-left: 0cm; line-height: 13.5pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; "><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333">Teachers suspect the Russell Group of universities – which includes Oxford and Cambridge – of rejecting outright pupils who take A-level subjects that appear on the unpublished lists.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 9.75pt; margin-left: 0cm; line-height: 13.5pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; "><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333">The lists are said to contain subjects such as law, art and design, business studies, drama and theatre studies – non-traditional A-level subjects predominantly offered by comprehensives, rather than private schools.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

gardener-joe

"Teachers suspect ... blah, blah, bleat" More unattributed nonsense from an unaccountable source.

miss annie

<p>None of this is news. I don't think it was ever a secret that art, drama and business studies aren't the preferred subjects for entry to Oxbridge. Nothing on earth would have made me a high acheiver in maths, physics and chemistry, even if I had gone to the best school in the land because I'm not interested in it. I'm a left brainer.</p><p>I don't know what ironic glasses are, no doubt that makes me severely unfashionable.</p>

Siolae

Really, really, really trying not to respond to this absolute Daily Mail bollox. 

Mirandola

Didn't think you were meant to cook sushi.

janez

@Annie: Sweetpae argues that IAMS's specialism does not matter. It does, and "nothing of this is news".<div><br></div><div>For left-brainers Oxbridge has a set of "strong" subjects such as English, History and Foreign Languages. English is particularly bad in Islington schools, as Oct 11 results (see Bridget's link) shows: "<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 18px; text-align: left; ">We were disappointed by the results in English and maths.</span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 18px; text-align: left; "> </span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 18px; text-align: left; ">We had too many kids getting Ds in English in particular, which brought down the results hugely"</span>.</div>

janez

Mirandola, I think that I remember some warm options in Dotori. However, the rice still need to be steamed. 

janez

Siolae, <a href="http://www.imglols.com/wp-content/main/2010_12/haters-gonna-hate-my-gold-medal.jpg">One more button</a>. And both quotations are from Guardian.

miss annie

<p>Disagreeing with someone or not capitulating to their views is not the same as hating them. Although I'm amazed that you know of so many places to find pictures to post in order to insult other members of this forum.</p><p>Oxbridge is not the best for Art, History of Art etc. There are much better places to go for those whose talents lie in those fields. </p><p> </p><p> </p>

Mirandola

They don't do art at all, but they are usually top or close at history of art. Very very different subjects - I was a good art historian and am not remotely creative.

janez

<p class="MsoNormal"></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">Dear Annie, I am sorry to see that your sensitivity to insulting intentions has not been tri</span>ggered when people were writing things like “<i>the more I learn of your worldview the more I appreciate my own</i>” and “<i>I hope I never meet any of them</i>”. My favourite was “<i>Perhaps you would benefit from spending some time in a really good school yourself? Sorry, and I take that back, if English is not your first language</i>” which contained a great deal of socio-economic chauvinism, giving exemption to a potential foreigner, but insisting on ridiculing a person with potential <a href="http://i.imgur.com/7jI6H.jpg">diverse socio-economic background and limited access to good education</a>.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">“Haters gonna hate” meme suggests that here is absolutely no need to be “really, really, really” emotional about people who do not agree with you. As a left-brain person, you may understand that many people (especially with poor writing) find it easier to express ideas in pictures, therefore, there is such plethora of already made artistic points on the Internet.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; "><br></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">I would agree that Oxbridge are not leading art institutions (was not sure about history of art, but I trust you). And I would be glad if someone could show with stats that local schools are feeding to leading art institutions</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: 'Lucida Sans Unicode', sans-serif; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; ">. </span></p><p></p>

Ali

kind of a relevant view<div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/feb/05/observer-editorial-education-reform-gove">http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/feb/05/observer-editorial-education-reform-gove</a>; </div><div><br></div>

Sweetpea

<span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; border-image: initial; outline-width: 0px; outline-style: initial; outline-color: initial; font-size: 12px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; vertical-align: baseline; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; line-height: 18px; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "> </span><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; border-image: initial; outline-width: 0px; outline-style: initial; outline-color: initial; font-size: 12px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; vertical-align: baseline; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; line-height: 18px; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">We had too many kids getting Ds in English in particular, which brought down the results hugely"</span><span style="font-family: 'lucida grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">.  </span><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; line-height: normal; "><span style="font-family: 'lucida grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><br></span></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; line-height: normal; "><span style="font-family: 'lucida grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">D is the average result at GCSE.  Its not just the median.  Its the mean average  as well. </span></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; line-height: normal; "><span style="font-family: 'lucida grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">Too many kids are average?  I think we know the flaws in that argument. </span></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; line-height: normal; "><span style="font-family: 'lucida grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">Yes, it would be great to have more "above average" pupils in Islington.  </span></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; line-height: normal; "><span style="font-family: 'lucida grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">But we know that a very large proportion of Islington kids go to schools in other boroughs, and there are less private schools in Islington as well. </span></div><div style="text-align: left; "><font face="'lucida grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif"><span style="line-height: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div style="text-align: left; "><font face="'lucida grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif"><span style="line-height: 18px;">would be happy to hear some comments on this, if I've got it wrong.  </span></font></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; line-height: normal; "><span style="font-family: 'lucida grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><br></span></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; line-height: normal; "><span style="font-family: 'lucida grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><br></span></div>

andy

Dismissing evidence you don't like and then inventing "secret, unpublished" evidence that people "suspect" backs your case is the prerogative of the conspiracy theorist. And should be taken as seriously.

gardener-joe

since when has average been the new unsatisfactory? damn that grade inflation!

andy

Oxford is rubbish for History of Art unless you have the express intention of finding a husband/wife from minor Central European/Middle Eastern royalty. In which it doesn't matter if you do Maths or drama.

gardener-joe

Or ... mor accurately: History of Art is rubbish unless you have the express intention of finding a husband/wife from minor Central European/Middle Eastern royalty. From St Andrews to the Courtauld ... its basically the same ... although in the latter case also throw in some posh Marxists (think Anthony Blunt).

Mirandola

No it's not. Unless you think there's no point in studying English or Music or Astrophysics or anything else without immediate tangible benefit. Tuts. Is annoyed. Particularly because that sort of guff is what puts off talented and not posh kids from studying the subject.

janez

Sweetpea, D can not be an average result in GCSE just because "<a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8720988/GCSE-results-2011-quarter-of-exams-graded-an-A.html">s</a><span style="color: rgb(40, 40, 40); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8720988/GCSE-results-2011-quarter-of-exams-graded-an-A.html">ome 69.8 per cent of entries were awarded at least a C</a>". </span><div><font color="#282828" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#282828" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px;">On the children travelling outside the borough (and families moving out) - it is exactly what my opponents are blaming me for. </span></font></div><div><font color="#282828" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#282828" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px;">Good point about lack of private schools. Are they included into borough-to-borough comparison at all? If yes, can we compare the number of private schools in Islington with that for the other boroughs (preferably, from the line of Hackney, Tower Hamlets, Southwark, Lambeth and so forth)? </span></font></div><div><font color="#282828" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#282828" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px;">Anyway, if the best state school for girls in the borough is just above the national average, and the second best is already below, it is not about lack of private schools. </span></font></div>